Behringer MS-101


#61

Same. Wonder of there are any fringe situations where the ACB falls apart, like high resonance filter sweeps, super low bass, etc. Video was pretty tedious so kinda skipped through it.

Behringer managed to make a perfect-sounding minimoog already so the 101 will probably sound spot on as well. Guess the decision comes down to the form factor you prefer.


#62

Now I want my SH01A back. I really liked it.
But what I also concluded when I owned it. I could get any sound that I was able to produce with the SH01A out of my A4. That was the reason I sold it.
I admit, bread and butter bass sounds were faster and easier to achieve on the SH01A.


#63

Tech is cloned, ripped off, expanded upon, all the time. I think this instance is very personal for a lot of people as it’s related to art, nostalgia, and an exclusive collector’s club ($$$). If Behringer had packaged these in original cases, colors, layouts, would people be this upset? There’s a lot of similar synths out there already.

I don’t see people getting bent out of shape at:

  • U-he for making Diva, which attempts to recreate MS-20, Juno 60, etc. D-16 for their 808/909 plugins? Do they pay a license fee perhaps?

  • What about sample pack sellers? Surely they are scoundrels for selling sounds of all these old synths for dirt cheap? Again, maybe they pay a license fee?

  • What about all the Fender and Gibson clones?

  • What about all the recreations of things like SSL buss comps and Pultec EQ’s?

  • What about Acidlab 303, 606, 808? Or the Yocto and Nava kits?

  • Eurorack recreations of classic filters, etc. tons of these. Doepfer Wasp and SEM filters, etc. (credit - @nightfade )

Flip through any Sweetwater catalogue and you’ll see dozens of things like this. Why does Behringer get so much hate for doing this? Not sure. I get it if people want to hate on Behringer for things in the past like bad build quality, poor customer service, or other things, sure, I get that one. But cloning and recreating old designs is rampant in music tech. If you’re gonna hate one, hate 'em all. But maybe people do and I’m just not aware of it?

I think they need a few of these 1:1 clones just to prove that they can make quality synths and then maybe they’ll start making more originals like the Neutron. I think most people would like to see more original fresh designs anyway.


#64

Now you’re making me miss my old A4.

I used to be in love with the 303 sounds, and a guy made and shared a kit dedicated to emulating the 303- and truthfully it sounded more ideal than any of the products I was looking to buy


#65

0383DEBF-5683-458F-8905-D6BF00CE555E


#66

It won’t be using a genuine CEM3340 but Behringer’s own unauthorised CoolAudio counterfeit version (the Behri Proone also) All I can tell you about this as someone who has built synths and painstakingly sourced vintage components is that it does matter and make a significant difference to the sound - which brings us back to the ACB thing - Roland modelled the circuit behaviour. I don’t know how good a clone the coolaudio chip is, but there are a lot of other components that are key in the signal path which probably have not been cloned.

Personally if I wanted an analog 101 clone I’d go for the dinsync one, probably more expensive but designed by a guy with a genuine passion for synths not just money.


#67

There are a number of differences, I personally do not have a problem with clones of vintage gear, most of the time it is done with integrity, out of love for the original, and not just cynically reverse engineering to cash in.

I guess people have the choice to ignore Behringer’s practices, or look into them a bit more and decide if they want to do business with them or not.


#68

I would tell this story everyone every day :loopy:
At least now I can tell the story, that I sometimes comment comments from someone, who sold his SH101 to Richard D James :yum:


#69

I agree. We should probably do that with all companies we purchase from. I know I don’t shop at Wal-Mart unless absolutely necessary. I don’t do Facebook. I buy organic local food when possible, etc. I guess synths are my weakness because I admit I am tempted by these. Will be mighty hard to resist an OB-Xa clone!


#70

All of the original manufacturers had YEARS (multiple decades in most cases) to bring back these ‘classics’ in original analog form. Any one of them could have done it. It’s been obvious for at least 20 years the demand for re-issues was huge. Moog reinvented themselves on it. Moog also showed that price wasn’t an issue. People would gladly pay top dollar for well made, high end reissues, so it’s not just about price.

Did manufacturers listen? Nope. Instead, the market answered and someone stepped in their place. I have no sympathy at all for them. They chose their destiny and went a different path. Before listening to anything about quality, Korg, Roland and others have pumped out plasticy digital crap for as much money as they could for years and the market accepted it, because up until recently there was no strong alternatives for hardware. You had boutique vendors like Elektron and others, but for mass market not a whole lot of choice. Arturia and others in recent years started stepping up. Only then did Korg do the Volca’s and Mini/Monologues. Roland still went the path of digital and higher profit margin.

Now you’ve got Beringer coming in with their game face on and ready mop the floor with the lot of them. Good! It’s only going to breed competition and hopefully we’ll see others answering. It’s the most exciting time I’ve been into music and studio gear since I started in the mid 90’s. The renaissance of high quality, affordable analog gear is incredible. Digital is on top of its game with DAWs, synths and FX. We’re incredibly spoiled for choice and I love it! :star_struck:


#71

So, the most exciting thing for music is rehashing old hardware ? As fond as I am of vintage analog sound, I still prefer new gear.
Also the volcas have been out for 5 years now and the minibrute only came out a year before that, so I don’t see how it relates to anything, because Korg bringing 3 products to market in one year in response to a monosynth that was not certain to sell well at the time seems like more than a stretch.


#72

No, not the case at all! Reissues are just one part of it. Euro rack! So many synth vendors… Dreadbox is a quick example. Tons of very high quality EQ’s, comps and mic pre’s from vendors. It’s crazy the options available right now.

The point is whether it’s a clone/reissue or something original as you want to be… it’s out there and likely very affordable (comparatively speaking to years and years of outrageous 2nd hand market prices).


#73

Indeed. It’s one thing to own a piece of gear that the guy used to own- it’s another thing to own it BEFORE him AND selling it to him directly


#74

I am so happy this is happening.

Mostly because I get to see part of the vintage gear market, which has been speculated out of control, collapse literally overnight.

All the while, you have an older generation/class of musicians getting their moral fedoras on preaching about intellectual integrity when what’s motivating their behavior is based around the fear that the vintage gear club that they smugly latch onto, will vanish before their eyes. This is a group that prides itself on the high barriers to entry for those that are interested in authentic vintage gear sounds and “recreations, covers, continuations, perpetuations, references” to genres of music making from decades past.

Insert MJ eating popcorn meme

This is the exemplar of said group.


#75

It wasn’t as simple as just bringing them back, because the components were not readily available - what Behringer did was essentially rig the game in their favour by counterfeiting the original chips, because they made huge profits from ripping off Boss and Electro Harmonix fx pedals, mackie mixers, and countless other things, and undercutting them whilst imitating their look, they were able to plough back into fab plants in China (at a time when for example Boss were made in Japan, Mackie in USA and so on) taking advantage of the cheap labour and cheap cost of production.

There is a lot more to it than this, and undoubtedly it will have a negative impact for some small manufacturers, but to be honest I’m getting a bit bored of talking about it now :rofl:


#76

Now I want to sell him something :smile:


#77

I was in 2 minds to mention it because it feels like bragging/bullshit, I sold him a few other bits too though over the years. He mentioned that 101 as being one of his favourite synths in an interview too.


#78

Oh wow! Now I’m with @Unifono for being inclined to brag about knowing a guy that sold Richard an item that was described as one of his favorite pieces in an interview.

It might actually be my pickup line(because if a lady doesn’t fall for that, she’s not for me)


#79

No problem, you can tell us more of that stories


#80

They actually do…
From an article on the subject…

“ As a leopard kitten matures into a prowling adult, its baby spots morph into more commanding rosette markings. Now scientists think they have uncovered the mechanism behind the transformation. “

So from kitten to adult their spots DO change. Caught by a technicality :wink: