Roger should be proud that they did their best and because of their attention to detail the linndrum competes and even outperforms the “proper” samples they wished they could use. Lot of people love them and it has nothing to do with nostalgia… they just punch, and the crispness of the machine (Lm-2 at least), the subtlety, the hi fi quality and the specific pleasing artifacts when you pitch / lower the rate of the sound — all musical qualities that you can measure that are unique. No idea if LM drum does that, but it’s worth it for designers to reflect on and study why a machine like the Linn Drum is so crisp and in your face
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I agree with a lot of what you’re saying but he’s talking about vintage digital drum machines, he’s pretty clear in this one regard I think:
“even if people value vintage analog synths, why vintage digital drum machines? I ask this because an old bit is no different than a new bit.”
So, in this, he’s disregarding the sound of the machine itself after in the original body of his statement saying that behringer must have worked really hard to copy his sound circuit, in that way he’s already confirmed that the machine plays a part in sound creation.
I’m not in on any inside information, but it sounds to me like he feels the machine itself imparts no sound on a digital bitrate, and that makes it sound a little like he designs without hearing because if I listen to different sample based vintage drum machines like an alesis hr16 and a TR707 I can tell them apart, and I think a lot of people can.
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Roger Linn was Leon Russell’s guitar player, and spent his younger years shacked up with Tom Petty, among other notable and highly-influential musicians, under Leon’s own label, Shelter Records. He is absolutely a musician, and a huge advocate for real musicianship.
Cheers!
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My bad. You’re probably right. I’m kinda doing three things at once.
Maybe he prefers a sampler to be accurate to the source sound vs a focus on the sampler imparting it’s own vibe on the sample. Or alternatively, maybe he thinks if you want LinnDrum specific sounds then a well recorded sample is fine.
If the use case is to send other samples through the linndrum sound circuit, then why bother with re-using the LinnDrum look and feel or including the original sounds. Just use the circuit and think about making the best interface you can. Again, nostalgia is not something that speaks to him, he already made that thing.
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Got them working and it’s a joy!
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You’re deviating from the point. All I’m commenting on right now is Mr. Linn’s statement about people being nostalgic for vintage sample-based drum machines and how a bit is just a bit.
I did propose that it sounds like he may not be listening and that’s more a comment about his design process or way of thinking might be more along the lines of implementation rather than sound, although I do not believe he is devoid of the ability to gauge whether something sounds good, but as you mention his definition of “good” might be different than someone with another opinion.
Therefore, to me, Roger Linn’s opinion about Behringer using the appearance of his machine and his samples is not the same discussion as Roger Linn saying that nostalgia for these types of products is nonsensical and using the analogy of bits (pure data) as the linchpin.
I don’t feel Roger Linn’s opinion has to be my opinion regarding something like bitrate or whatever, however I respect him as a genius and an iconic creator so Roger Linn’s opinion and my opinion as two adults in the world, can exist side by side without either being the truth, or a falsity.
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I have some behringer product that is really like : pro800, deepmind12, model d, cat, etc…
This one is … I don’t understand it that much to be fair… I mean it does not look bad, but not good either… And in so much area.
The TR8s look to provide way more and has quite few output.
A used Digitakt goes way deeper in sound design and other area…
Yeah it has the look of the old one and tons of control for non that useful stuff. I mean who will use all those panning fader ? Ok it has all those DAC… Which I am really suspicious it will be that magical in practice.
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Ahh, I was focusing on his overall statement on the LMDrum which leads to him questioning nostalgia as whole. 
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I got you, Like I said, I primarily agree with your take on it, I was just clarifying myself so that I’m not making blanket statements.
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I wonder how a statement from Elektron would look like regarding the „similarity“ of the display graphics of the LNNdruM… 
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Regarding Nostalgia I believe there is a big market for this, everything of the generation that grew up with music of the 80s watching musicians on MTV playing those massive amounts of keyboard on stage, and of course wanting to own them.
That is why the LMDrm makes sense. To own a piece that might recreate the sound of that era and has the looks as well.
When you listen to early to mid 80s it feels like every single was made with the Linndrum.
But they did not sound the same because of the heavy use of outboard effects.
That is why I believe using samples in any device or DAW and then process the sh*t out of them with compressors, eq and stuff will do the job.
And the nostalgia will fade as soon as you hold that thing in your hand.
At least that is what I experienced with the Pro One clone or the RD8. Great sounding, really, but not the OG.
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I’m enjoying the discussion about Linn’s interview, thanks for posting that @pmags.
I would like to discuss the points he makes before that sentence about bits being bits and why cloning digital vintage drum machines:
“One last comment. What’s the big deal about nostalgia? I can understand that some people value analog synthesis, though I find the many types of innovative software synthesis created in recent decades to be far more capable, versatile and interesting. But even if people value vintage analog synths, why vintage digital drum machines?”
I find it interesting that he also seems to think analog drums are kinda lame. Him speaking about “innovative software synthesis” makes me wonder whether he’s only referring to plugins here or if that includes hardware as well. It sounds a bit like he prefers using a DAW with plugins for drums these days, but I could be reading too much into that.
Roger is very much a musician. He’s a gent too!
Interesting to hear his thoughts on it all.
@Azzarole I understand it like this.
He look to prefer software, and I believe he could find them interesting when packaged in well made box. But that does not look to be a requirement.
He make hardware interface for plugin in the end.
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That may be the case, but I would wager he doesn’t understand why I play commodore 64 games on breadbin hardware instead of a playstation v35 or computer emulation.
A person can be awesome and have shit taste in music, I’ve met a lot of them. Not saying that about Linn, that’s just a general analogy so don’t get me wrong.
There is room in this world for more than one opinion, even if one of them belongs to Roger Linn.
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I think it’s simply because legally they don’t need to ask for permission, so they didn’t.
In the end of the day who’s morals should a company like Behringer follow? Yours? Mine? The shifty bloke’s that sells nicked goods down the pub? Or the morals that society has decided matter and made into law?
Personally I’m looking forward to Behringer using all the experience their teams have gained recreating these classics, for which there is clearly demand, and now using that experience to create new products.
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Yes and no. Let me explain.
Legally the hardware patents on the design or thr original hardware have expired (I think it’s 20 years or something) and this would allow anyone to recreate a new device being an exact 1:1 replica if they wanted.
On the other hand there’s copyright law, which would cover the sounds. It seems that he owns the copyright to these and AFAIK it’s all the way up to 75 years after the death of the copyright holder (and maybe more, thanks Disney Corp.).
The fact that B didn’t didn’t clear it with him or obtain a licence so they could use the sounds in a new device does leave it open for him to enforce his copyrights on the sounds. He could get them to remove them from the device if he really wanted, or ensure it wasn’t shipped with them in the first place.
The gist I get is he isn’t going to do this as Roger mentioned in his post that these sounds are everywhere now and have been sampled and used countless times, but he would be well within his legal rights.
Again, IANAL and just have a rudimentary knowledge of some of this stuff.
TLDR
- B replicating original hardware is okay legally.
- B using original LinnDrum sounds isn’t okay under copyright law if they have not obtained a licence for this use from the copyright holder.
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I’m wondering if you can copyright a digital recording (sample) of a single hit acoustic snare drum though?
It’s not actually clear if there is a copyright to the samples used, since they seem to be in the public domain all over the place. And if there is, who actually owns it.
Samples From Mars started their whole business copying the Linndrum samples…
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