Behringer D Synth


#102

The whole point of patents is to allow inventors to keep control of their invention for a limited time after which others can freely use their inventions without any restrictions.

Patents are not intended to protect inventors, but to foster innovation by encouraging inventors to publish their methods instead of trying to keep them secret.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent is good reading.

Copyright was originally limited in the same way, but the copyright term has been extended so often to make this kinda meaningless. This is called the “Mickey Mouse” effect; https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2013/10/25/15-years-ago-congress-kept-mickey-mouse-out-of-the-public-domain-will-they-do-it-again/?utm_term=.fbf445adcbca


#103

What matters to me is that they managed to give us the Model D sound for cheap. I’m not a fan of Behringer products or the company’s practices but this is way to good to pass up.


#104

The thing looks and sounds pretty damn good. There’s a market for it, it’s satisfying people’s needs / wants. Couldn’t / don’t really give a shit about UB’s personal philosophy, marketing strategies, or dubious ethics (who’s negatively affected by this?) - asserting some type of moral high ground here seems a bit ridiculous, especially if the product delivers.


#105

But how can they be so cheap? If they sound the same, what does Moog offer for 3000 more?


#106

a status symbol? “authenticity” ?


#107

A furniture with a Moog stamp on it.


#108

The TB 303 says hi, but I guess it is a subtractive analog synth so in a sense isn’t ENTIRELY original.

That is my experience from trying them in a shop. You need tweezers for some of those knobs. :disappointed_relieved:

Behringer stuff is mass produced in China, Moog is made in the US in much smaller quantities ( I think).


#109

Perhaps you have “Andre the giant” hands, I must admit i dont have a big hands and fingers.
It has several upsides i can rock any Boutique easily, pick my nose and so on, however being close to 50 i must admit i cant see shit on the boutiques without my glasses on, this is where my OG 1974 minimoog really comes in handy with huge knobs [quote=“Nagualizer, post:108, topic:37216, full:true”]

The TB 303 says hi, but I guess it is a subtractive analog synth so in a sense isn’t ENTIRELY original.

That is my experience from trying them in a shop. You need tweezers for some of those knobs. :disappointed_relieved:

Behringer stuff is mass produced in China, Moog is made in the US in much smaller quantities ( I think).
[/quote]

=)


#110

As a device, it’s utterly unoriginal and clearly derived from what came before. Step sequencers had been done. Simple subtractive bass voices had been done. 4-pole diode ladder filters had been done.

What’s original about the TB-303 is how acid artists have been able to turn it’s cost-cutting faults into features, and how they’ve invented a style of music from that. :wink:


#111

If Moog decided to build a ‘desktop’ version without a high end trim that was fully manufactured overseas, then it absolutely could have been as cheap or at least significantly less expensive. You’re seeing right now that the parts costs for the Behringer D are probably well under $100. After manufacturing and shipping there’s a nice little profit, then the rest is dealer markup.

Moog knew there was a market willing to pay thousands for a ‘classic’ as used were selling for (IIRC $6-10K). $3K starts to sound like a bargain. They’re largely made and assembled in the US by hand which significantly adds to the cost, but they’re still obviously making a killing on it. And there’s nothing wrong with that… they should get whatever the market is willing to pay.

Maybe Moog will get a little more smart and offer some models fully built overseas with decent, but lesser quality trim as well as desktop units for less. Continue to offer high end versions exclusively built (aside from some of the circuit boards) by hand and tested in the US. They could expand their market share. Probably not though. Seems like they want to maintain a certain reputation and level of exclusivity. Keeping prices high is one way to do that.


#112

I think the 303 has more like a 3-pole (18db/octave) filter, and the way the sequencer is integrated and how the glide and accent work hadn’t been done before but I could be wrong, and this is entirely academic anyway :slight_smile:


#113

Most of a modern Moog is manufactured overseas. They are designed and assembled in Asheville, but most of the delicate work is outsourced.


#114

Common misconception, but no. It is 4-pole.

Well yes, but that’s exactly my point. By taking things that have been done before and using those, you arrive at new things. The development of the TB-303 did not happen in isolation.

IMHO the TB-303 is interesting exactly because the people at Roland tried to make a small bass synth with an integrated step sequencers as simple and as cheaply as possible.

The reason the glide has the same duration regardless of the pitch difference is simply because that’s easier to implement.

EDIT: Oh, and I don’t see what’s special or unique about the accents. Routing velocity to both amp and env had been done plenty of times before and is a rather obvious thing to do if you’re trying to emulate how a bass guitar is played. :slight_smile:


#115

Did you made that up or did they really say that in an official statement? I hope they never load Repro-5 and compare it to their “analog” deepmind synth. Could ruin the afternoon.

The discussion about Behringer-D will hopefully calm down a bit when it is released. Maybe it is the cheap analog synth we are waiting for. I´ll give it a chance and look forward to test it at a store.


#116

Behringer cloning digital hardware? pfft dream on… They wouldn’t have a clue unless they magically got a copy of the original source code. That is why I’m guessing we will only see analog hardware clones from them. They’d go bankrupt trying to clone say, a machinedrum :}


#117

I know it’s a totally different sound, and I really like the Behringer D sound, but seeing what all I get in my $299 analogue (Korg Monologue) makes me it appreciate it even more: patch memory; an intuitive sequencer with 16 physical buttons, motion sequencing, and p-locks; battery operated; and a keyboard. Crazy what we can get for $299 nowadays.


#118

Do you have any idea how much a modern smartphone would cost if half of the industrial world wasn’t making, and competing making parts for it? The economies of scale are powerful things, way beyond any funds of a mortal.

In IT tech, volumes of sales are 100 000 x bigger than in music gear… these lil facts affect the final prices so much it isn’t even funny.


#119

Some blurps about Moog becoming a cooperative, and then some info on the production of the model D:

-Model D-


Moog mother or behr model d sound
#120

I catch your point OM!

Something i like from the Moog DFAM manual:

PRESETS
Please note that your DFAM is 100% analog, and as a result, each unit has subtle sonic differences due to component tolerances that make it unique. This means that two different units set the same way may sound slightly different. This is normal.

I like the this is normal.


#121

yeah its from this recent post https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1196469-ub-xa-synthesizer.html that Uli made on gearslutz.