Bass Station 2 vs Toraiz AS-1

The Lounge Other Gear
#21

I do have a Mk 1 - I love its form factor which is why I decided on the Mk1. Plus the value for money is outrageous

Re file structure, not 100% sure which aspect you’re referring to to be honest.

Sets are a thing of the OT only as far as I know. But the A4, like the OT within sets and the DT at its base is organised in Projects that contain patterns that are organised in banks. So it’s symmetrical in that way.

Another thing the A4 has is “Kits”. You can save individual sounds as presets but then you can also save a combination of presets laid out on its four tracks as “kit.” This way, you can switch between sound sets / preset combinations quite effortlessly. A great feature for performance.

The way I work with my DT, OT and A4 is that I mirror projects on all three devices. Patterns are also laid out symmetrically, so bank 1 pattern 1 on the OT goes with bank 1 pattern 1 on the DT and A4 etc.

What’s neat about the A4 is that you either have four mono synths (each track one voice) or you can use it as four voice poly. Then there’s two oscillators + one sub oscillator + noise generator + AM and FM capabilities + two filters + two envelopes + two LFOs + Overdrive + FX Sends to Reverb, Chorus and Delay…all PER VOICE…it’s a sound designer’s dream! I love designing pads and atmospheric sounds on it and find its sound very emotive, very beautiful.

That said, when I first got it I thought it sucked lol. But that’s because I didn’t spend the time to really dive in and approach the A4 as what it is - instead I treated it like my odd monosynth. For example the filters really work together. Filter one is a Low-Pass Filter and it’s quite “thinning” on its own + I don’t like the sound of its resonance all that much. Ok, but now combine filter one with a Peak filter on filter 2 and sweep the frequency range with that and suddenly it sounds beast! Or for more classical mono synth sounds / filter action, I realised I could skip filter 1 and set filter 2 to low pass, then play with that (different sound). Also Oscillator volumes make a difference on the A4 as well as gently overdriving a voice will change the way the filters sound.

Combine all of this with the ability to sequence and p-lock right there in the machine and you have a total winner.

What I mean to say, for the money a Mk 1 changes hands for these days, you will not find that much synth ANYWHERE. And even at full price, it is a really attractive offering.

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#22

I’d say it has a huge sweet spot (had the mk1A4, still got the AK). But it’s got so many modulation sources, hidden deep sometimes, that you forget they’re there. So you could spend hours twiddling the cutoff without realising there’s an LFO or envelope somewhere pulling it in other directions! Definitely love the OB interface to avoid that trip up.
But regarding sound, the A4 can do BS2, but the AS-1 is more luscious.

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#23

You could just buy something like a Zoom MS-70CDR.

The BS2 sounds even better when fed through some digital FX.

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#24

It really sounds like a great synth indeed. I’ll think about it. The only thing I’m going think over, is wether it’s too much synth for me at the moment. With so many capabilities, I wonder if it would make things too difficult for me at the moment, before getting to sounds I like. I didn’t mind the OT learning curve too much, because I can dive in the many applications piece-meal. But I’m not sure if I’d have the feeling towards a (mono) synth.

That’s one thing that appeals me in the AS-1: behind menus there seem to be a lot of controllable parameters, but on the front panel it’s a little limited, which might help me from getting lost. But the argument for an A4 does still sound interesting, I won’t write it off just yet.

Would you say it’s easy to start with A4 and keep things simple, and get good sounds. Or does it only really come to life when using more parameters?

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#25

Perfect, thanks, this was what I was trying to say. It sounds like a great workflow. Does it save the sound parameter settings in the pattern (like DT/DN) or only in the Kit, like with OT’s Parts?

#26

Towards the general knob per function argument/discussion: for my experience level, I think this actually works against me still. As soon as I use a preset, or recall a saved patch, I can’t see what’s all going on. Sure, there are indicator lights on the BS2 and similar synths to show where to turn the knob towards the saved patch amount/level, but basically you’d have to go through all knobs via that system to have an overview of what’s happening. I’ve tried just working through this, because I just “should understand/learn this”, but in the end I enjoy it a lot more if I have a screen that indicates these parameter settings.

For someone still learning, there’s an argument to be made that that’s a great way to learn, because you can still patch everything instead of preset browsing, but you feel less lost with all the instant visual feedback. That’s why I love my Digitone. Learn a lot from others peoples patches, being able to immediately see all the parameter setting one menu screen at a time. Plus it’s a very gratifying thing to put a lot of hours in a patch you make and then being able to save and reuse it hassle free. Just to say, in response to the oversimplified “just go modular and learn it by heart”.

#27

I totally understand!! And I’ll be honest with you, the A4 was my third synth I got (after two very straight forward Dreadbox mono synths) and at first I struggled to get a good sound out of it as I described above. Not sure if I would have held on to it if it would have been my first.

So definitely it can be overwhelming at first, especially because it is not one knob per function.

That said, I’ve designed some pad sounds using only a fraction of the tools available on the A4 (I call my favorite one “Near Jupiter” because it starts off far away but gets beautifully expansive, front and centre and yet somehow remains spherical through the internal reverb :)).

But you do have to approach the A4’s capabilities with confidence to not get lost in them.

My first hardware synth was a Dreadbox Erebus and in a way that thing was (and still is :)) perfect as a first synth, because it has such a basic, simple structure but still can produce really nice and diverse sounds (and it’s one big sweet spot effectively).

So with the Erebus I learned and internalised the basics in a way that gave me the confidence to approach the A4 as someone who knows what he wants from it (and believes to know how to get it…even if that’s not really true lol).

I still don’t use all functionality on my A4 (eg I don’t do any FM synthesis, I only occaisonally use more than one modulation envelope or LFO etc) and yet I’m already getting my money’s worth many times over.

Now the AS-1 looks cool and having a prophet 6 voice at that price is ludicrous! BUT, the UI is not exactly awesome. I feel for a synth to be more than just a preset machine, I need to see the knobs and functions and make quick moves and decisions on the fly for me to use its full potential. I understand it can be midi mapped, but I find that sub-optimal most of the time. Then the question comes up: why this and not eg U-he Diva?

Still, in Germany the AS1 goes for 300-350€ used, so I too am contemplating one. At that price it’s not a huge risk to take :slight_smile:

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#28

i can understand your situation. I was in a similar a few years ago.

well if you dont want to loose the patches, just backup them to a pc. there is a patch editor for the bs2 available.

what happened to me when i suddenly had a synth with a few hundred slots, i forgot where i saved the sounds. and searching for the right slot just broke my creative process.

so i switched to modular. i still have synths with preset slots, but i barely use the slots. i dial in new sounds every time so it fits the song. youll get quicker at this and its more easy to remember the settings than slot numbers (well at least for subtractive and additive synthesis). if i need to recall something, i just record it in a sampler or daw.

one tip if youre looking for something with snappy envelopes is the doepfer dark energy. but if you werent happy with dfam (which i bought two of them because it sounds so incredible) this might not your cup of tea.

I would be curious, if youll switch from bs2 to as1 if youre still happy with your decision a few weeks later :grinning:

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#29

I think you’ll find that even more of an issue with the AS1 When you jump between patches. You’ll be endlessly scrolling through the menu trying to compare settings between patches unless you know or have a good idea of the parameter you specifically want to adjust. With the A4 multiply that by 10! Especially once you get into patches with parameter locking.

Without meaning to sound harsh you could do with spending some time on the BS starting from a default patch and really getting to grips with the controls and their interaction. It’ll stand you in good stead as you’ll stand more of a chance when going to something like the AS1. (Or anything else for that matter). The principles of synthesis aren’t that hard to get your head around and once you start you’ll be creating your own presets in no time. It’s a step most folks take and once you do it you’ll never look back. Those same principles can then be transposed over to whichever synth you want to integrate into your rig. Start with baby steps, one oscillator, and go from there. You’ll be surprised how easy you’ll pick it up and the BS 2 is such a great synth to learn on too.

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#30

Definitely a classic and that keyboard is a non-negligible extra over the discussed alternatives. @lesstalkmoredisco you already have a bunch of hi-q fx boxes so that advantage of the as1 is easily made up for.

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#31

If really in need of a mono with fx then this looks like an awesome contender though:

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#32

More than non-negligible. It’s a really great controller keybed–great synth action, velocity-sensitive, polyphonic, channel/mono aftertouch (that works pretty well–which sounds like faint praise unless you’ve tried a bunch of keyboards with aftertouch). I use it all the time to control other synths. (I can’t speak to the AS-1, but I’m never selling my BS2. Sounds great, awesome keyboard, every now and then Novation is like “hey what if we drop AFX mode or paraphony into this product that’s closer to a decade old than it is to its release, unlike pretty much every company.”)

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#33

No worries, I come here for the enjoyment of the conversation and to learn, so constructive feedback is much appreciated.

I‘m actually here at the moment on a few days holiday (close by home) and sparked by this thread I’m enjoying most of my time here by the campfire sitting reading about synthesis. Started with reading the AS-1 and A4 manuals to read up on their specs, but ended up (re)reading both the A4’s and Digitone appendix tutorials/explanations about the basics of synthesis and FM. (Plus playing around with the Moog Model D app that I got free recently via the “perennial deals” thread hahaha)

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#34

And this is good to know, I think workflow and a good overview of parameters is really important to me.

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#35

Haha it’s actually really nice to have someone already know my gear here on EN:) Thanks @dtr for the input

#36

I have/had have both. The bass station 2 is more immediate, great for acid tones. but I ended up reaching for the AS-1 way more often. the AS-1 is a single voice prophet 6, and ends up covering a-lot of very familiar territory very quickly. As for the Bass Station 2, I agree that it ACIIIDs, but i have a bunch of synths that kinda do that already so I sold it.

As far a bass synths go, the AS-1 is arguable the best “Bass” synth under $800. (It also has the same midi implementation as the Prophet 6 if anyone s curious, any editors that work with the prophet 6 will likely work with the AS-1)

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#37

I second the Analog Four recommendation. I’ve gone through a LOT of synths in my day but the A4 and AS-1 will continue to be permanent fixtures in my setup.

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Personally if I were in your situation I would find a good deal on an AS-1 and try it out, and if it works better for you sell the BS2 to help fund an A4. The sounds of these two augment each other very well, i.e. the AS-1 can make certain sounds better than the A4 and vice versa. But both are solid, quality synths.

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#38

I should have said, “only get a mk1 A4”. But hey, what the hell. I got both my AS-1’s for under AU$500 during sales.

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#39

Be aware that the A4 does not give you the sounds of a BS2.

Viewed purely as a sound source, the A4 is more of an alternative (which you may or may not prefer) than a replacement.

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#40

What I think I’m realizing through this thread is the value of workflow. It really sounds like the AS-1 for example is a gréat sounding synth, if that’s what you’re looking for. But maybe not for me right now. For the A4 va BS2, I’ve got time, so I’ll see what happens. Will pull the BS2 out again and give it another few goes:)

And if I make something nice on it, I’ll probably sample it into the OT. That way I know it’s stored, and when I’ll want to play a set for friends at a party or something I won’t be bringing the BS2 anyway in my backpack.

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