Since a year or so I’m recording strictly live performed tracks. For health reasons I need to stay away from computer screens, which pushed me back in live hardware territory and I’m very happy with that. Sure I only have 2 hands and can’t automate all the details I did in DAW, but the added immediacy and energy is a great improvement for me. I’m much more productive than before and I can take my tracks pretty much straight to the stage for live gigs.
Also, I think this kind of discussions are so academic when people don’t post music to illustrate their opinions. So here you go, all recorded live. No post edits other than some EQ and/or dynamics (minimally): https://soundcloud.com/dietervandoren
Record single parts live recorded into an arrangement
Draw lines
I am totally NOT a 1. person. I suck the moment, I press record, so I need way to many takes until I am somehow happy. The longer the song, the longer it takes and the more frustration builds.
When I used a DAW, I used both, 2 and 3, for Notes and for Automation. Some parts I clicked into sequences, some parts I recorded. Some automations where drawn, some where recorded with me turning knobs. I prefer 2 over 1 because I can focus on 1 part and don’t have to mess everything at once.
On electron devices it was way more 3 then 2, as I used p-locks a lot by manipulating every single step.
Since I use the deluge, I more moved over to 2. Most of my automation is either (if I only need some slight changes) any kind of modulation, or I record it, mostly because Deluge has no real implementation for triggerless triggs (that I like to use).
So I perform lots of parts in my songs, but I save them into an arrangement and play them back, when I am happy.
To add to that: I loved Live recordings of my band (vocals, guitars, bass and drums) for the live feeling and as a way to see, what we done, get the audience response etc.
But I was way more happy with studio work, where we were able to record as much takes as we needed. To add here, I was never there for ultimate perfection, and never exchanged a single note or something.
Torn between the two as well. I don’t use piano roll DAWS atall, so intricate arrangements or a completely loop/sample based approach (chop chop chop and fiddle) isn’t possible. It’s a blessing and a curse. I can replicate standard techniques (breakdowns, drops etc., bringing voices in and out etc.), but it’s either automating it with some effort, or landing them in a recorded jam. It’s more effort and time for sure. Either you gotta re-record if you botch a transition or whatever, or it’s putting in the hours to patch it so you don’t have to wiggle knobs or press buttons to do it. The former is less hassle, so it’s saving time if I can perform on my setup. For me it’s worth escaping the fear and boredom a piano roll interface triggers in me on sight. The process of making music for me is more enjoyable without. As it is I’m at least finishing tracks, albeit accepting limitations in complexity.
That also makes most sense for me. I’m not able to create a full song I’m happy with just by improvising. But on the other hand trying to arrange everything often ends up in boring or too static stuff. I like to jam around with patterns to find some interesting modulations record them as variations to integrate in an arrangement.
The magic formula that gives me the best results is to record a pure stereo mixdown “jam” performance, dump it in my phone and take a walk while listening to it. Improvements which can be made to both the mix and the arrangement are most evident when away from the gear.
Then I go back, fix the mix, write out some arrangement notes on a piece of paper and then do a live take again.
Rinse and repeat until it’s good. Sometimes you miss certain happy accidents in previous takes, but the succession of several live takes while really trying to “get it right” make for the best outcome, in my personal experiences. Here’s an example. The arrangement for this was written on a piece of paper taped to the camera.
As you’re coming from a traditional instrument (like me), what about using sheets, or at least some lines sketched on paper? I remember a music teacher painting lots of lines on the blackboard, describing tensions rising and falling in a sonata or something. This kind of approach should translate well to electronic music. -> roughly arrange on paper, perform live.
This is impressive and exactly why I arrange stuff on my deluge in arranger mode. I want the same stuff automated, but I am in no way able to perform that in a way I like.
I am in my mid 40th now and play videogames as long as it is possible, aber I am still not able to do more than pushing the buttons in a kind of panic mode, as soon as a fight starts. That’s exactly the same, as me trying to turn knows/select tracks/time patterns in a performance. Even after years of doing and practicing, I don’t get better in it
These days my main concern if I go out to gig is having fun, and hopefully that translates to the audience.
My set’s are usually a mix of arrangements, improve, and playing on top of arrangements.
I don’t feel much difference after a good gig if I nailed a guitar solo to a live drummer, or if I was just mashing on the OT cross fader all night to arranged beats.
If it sounded good and I had fun, great.
This is a good idea. I have seen this done by contemporary composers. There seemed to be no standard notation, but it seems to work for the artists.
If I would decide to play my improvisations to an audience, well I do it sometimes in a very private environment, I would practice as much as it takes, until there is a performance, which is interesting and coherent.
I’m currently learning the performance aspect having setup a respectable layout of hardware. I’m learning ways of doing things OTB that I could do easily ITB. Mostly, it’s the signal processing/EQing. Nothing stops me from dragging on one of several high quality EQs, compressors, or other tools to shape and sculpt the sound. OTB I have to make better decisions about things. I’ve yet to perform live (I had to cancel my first show due to the ongoing situation). I am learning that less is usually more though.
I want to do a lot of different things live but it’s a lot to control. It goes from guiding hardware through patterns and away from performing on the fly. Before I commit to any one way of performing in hardware I want to select just a small setup to master. I’ve seen people slay it using one synth and one drum machine. The only thing that doesn’t resonate with me is that over a 1 to 1.5 hour set with limited/similar sounds things can start to sound stale. It makes me want to have a slightly larger setup.
So, for me, I love arranging as I can craft a piece with essentially no limitations. But, I absolutely love jamming out, doing sound design, finding creative inter-connectivity solutions, and the immediacy of connecting with my kit. My performance and my ITB compositions will likely emerge as two separate, but equally appreciated, entities.
One of the reasons I ditched the computer and itb way of working was because arranging stuff became boring, so I switched to hardware and jamming but I never seem to have the time to do anything useful, by the time I’ve set up and got something going it’s normally time to call it a day, so when I come back to it the next time I end up starting from scratch again so never actually get anything finished !!
That’s what I love about ableton so much.
I collect clips in kind of a jam session, where I just keep the clock running and collect ideas and sounds with a midi keyboard or even my laptop keyboard, it’s really like a jam session for me… throwing samples into simpler, slice them up with one mouse click, play the chops with my keyboard, finger drum the beats etc etc…
Then I just use my mouse or a cheap launchpad mini and jam the arrangement, by just launching clips. I give it a few takes to come close to a working version and record it into arrangement window. Then I just add some automation, make simple arrangement adjustments and do the mix.
No other DAW (never tried bitwig though) gives me the feeling that I’m playing it… It just flows, controllers like Push just slow me down if I’m honest.
Logic and co are great but just feel like square pushing. Not ableton.
I would say my process is most definitely performance oriented. I put together a few solid patterns that work well together (bridge, verse, chorus) and manually switch patterns , mute / unmute tracks when it feels right. I’ll throw in a few manual filter tweaks, control all, etc… as I run the patterns to add some variety. After I get a solid take multi tracked into my daw (audio, not midi) , I will start the process of cutting, pasting, rearranging chunks of audio if needed.
It’s a combination of arranging and performing, but it leans much more towards performing. I enjoy the performing aspect due to the fun factor and it helps build your muscle memory with your gear. More importantly though, I enjoy printing the tracks to audio as you end up being committed to work with those tracks as they are. You sacrifice flexibility and perfection for efficiency, speed, and fun, in my opinion. The multitracked audio does still give me flexibility to re-arrange or remove sections but I’m not able to make large, drastic changes. A sacrifice I’m able to accept for my workflow sake. I never had fun recording tons of midi and trying to perfect everything, add tons of automation, layering, etc… I never finished any music that way.
Funny thing, I was just complaining to my self about not being able to do more arrangements on the Octatrack, and was just wondering how I could plan things better in advance on that device. I ended up just fading between allot of different scenes which were muting tracks and bringing in different effects. But I feel that there has to be a better way for arranging on the OT. Maybe I’ll check out the arrangement feature
When going full hardware i also arranged my setup so that it s good to go with a flick of the power switch. Instant musicking. My studio setup is also exactly my live setup. Just pack it up and go.
Very interesting Progression the last 2 days. I bought a Blackbox because I wanted a hardware sampler. And I got 2 jams running of the 2 days that ended in 2 recordings, that I really liked. Maybe I just needed the right tool to get going…
