Argon 8 or Hydrasynth... Modules

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

Need a small form desktop (Argon is perfect, Hydra a little long but I can make it work) that is a wavetable type synth.

Hydra has the pads, and is deeper (from what I can tell) but Argon has a programmable Arp (WHY isnt the hydra programmable) and has a step sequencer with animation lanes…

Cant decide. I really could do with a synth (rather than the FA) with at least programmable arp patterns (which is the big neg for the Hydra) - but the workflow, osc/filters/envs of the hydra are tempting.

Im a purely live player and only use hardware. Currently use an RD2000, FA07 (for keybeds and core sounds), Legend EXP Organ Module, Peak and a Digitakt (mainly for samples rather than beats).

#2

What exactly do you mean by “programmable arp”? What functions are you wanting? You might find the HS has more functionality with this than you think.

Also with the HSD (D for Desktop) the pads are both Poly-aftertouch and MPE capable, which is a big plus.

I’d also say you need to consider what sort of sounds you are seeking. They are both digital synths but are quite different in sound, and there are capability differences.

Are you thinking about the Argon 8M?

Disclosures: i own a HSK, and i am also very much a fan of the Argon.

#3

I did pre-order the Argon8M, but its been delayed (obviously given Corona) and Im having second thoughts.

By Programmable Arp - I mean the ability to create your own note sequences (a bit like a step sequencer) which then plays in apr mode, so when you change key the notes in the sequence change accordingly. I like the step sequencer with animation lanes idea (the Minilogue XD does this too but its too big) but could probably make do without that (and use the FAs sequencer should I need to) - but the programmable patterns in the arp is probably the main reason why I went looking for another module (apart from having some space to fill lol).

Over and above the arp - its just finding something that offers sounds I dont already have in the VA side of the FA and the Peak. Hence looking at wavetable synths rather than analogue/VA ones.

The Hydra seems to offer a lot more than the Argon in pure sound design…but lacks the sequencer - and after research also the ability to program phrases that the arp can use. That second bit is probably a deal breaker though…unless there’s a way round it.

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#4

Both Argon and HS allow external control for sequencing, so at that they’re equal.

The Mod-Matrix on the Hydrasynth, with the sources of Midi CCs (and lots more) and all the destinations is stronger than the Argon.

Big for the Argon is the 512 step sequencer built in PLUS it has the 4 parameter animation rows. This is a lot of power, and you can do some amazing things with those animation rows! I like that you can create animations blindly and then later apply them to a sequence. Someone that uses the Argon, can describe this better than i.

The HS goes at this all in a different way. It has no sequencer built-in. It does have the two CV input channels (mapable in the Mod-Matrix). It also has 5 LFOs and 5 Envelopes, each of which can be made to act like the other, so that’s ten modulation sources. But more in specific with the arpeggiator, it does “additive arpeggiation”. This permits you to put in a “sequence” of notes, into the arpeggiator, up to 32, which is different than chord arpeggiation. Using the pads you put a series into the arpeggiator, that can have repeated notes. Now this isn’t a sequencer, so there aren’t different note lengths, or rests, etc, nor is it editable, but it does have melodic flow.

The HS also has many, many parameters for the arpeggiator that you can control and modulate, which allows you to “play” the arpeggiator. I’d be happy to tell you about all this, but there’s a lot to it, so it would be a separate post, but a for instance is the Mode, Chance, Ratchet, and Length parameters that let you change up an arpeggiated sequence.

You also have the ability to set a key and scale for the voice, which takes the raw arpeggiated data, and fits that to the harmony you have set with key and scale. Unfortunately key and scale can only be set using front panel controls – i want them to be destinations for the Mod-Matrix.

One thing to point out, something that gets missed – the HSK is different from the HSD, in that the HSK also has a Chord function, chords being different than the ones used by the arpeggiator.

With my HSK, i just run an external sequencer, or use the tricks i’ve outlined above, or a combination of the two.

Good though for you to key in on this difference.

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#5

A feature that the 8M has that is really nice and has no equivalent on the HSD is the joystick. I own an Elektron Analog Keys and the joystick on that is almost worth the price of admission.

Of course with the HSK there are the two mod wheels and the ribbon controller. But i want to get a joystick to plug into the CV inputs on the HS.

#6

I guess the best way to describe what I need from the “programmable” bit is a couple of examples.

The first - a simple one, is the arp pattern at the start of “aint nobody”. Its a simple pattern based on a chord - but it moves up an octave, and its the transition between the octaves thats not easy unless you program the specific pattern.

The second is the Apr pattern in Durans Hungry like the wolf - originally done with a random pattern - -but once recorded its becomes “not random” any more… (same goes for the Rio arp). This needs programming note by note - But its pitch changes with the song (same pattern - different pitch) - it needs to hold (without holding the keys down) then move to the new pitch on the next chord.

Both these are achievable with my current setup - in part, but to nail them I need to program the pattern the arp uses. Argon can do this. If Hydra can, then Id probably go with that (as while the sequencer is great, and I dont really have an easy one to use - only the built in one on the FA which isnt the easiest to use) ESPECIALLY with the animation lanes (similar to the Minilogue XD) - but its a function I dont need as such. Due to that Id take the Hydras other abilities over the Argon IF - and only IF I could program those arp patterns on the Hydra…

#7

As I will get the module not the keyboard version -I wont get the mod wheels or ribbon in the Hydra.

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#8

Oh - maybe some background on what I do. I play in a few projects. One is an 80s covers band, the others are function bands playing 60s through to modern day. My use wont really be trance/dance style stuff.

Things like Bruno Mars, Anastasia et al from the modern era. Things like Depeche Mode, OMD, Human League, Tears For fears, Ultravox and the like from the 80s.

I am short of the step sequencer and programmable arpegiators for these - though I have most of the core sounds Id need. I will use which ever module as a VA synth engine within thiese projects (though some DM stuff uses wavetable sounds).

I will dig into the more evolving side of wavetables synthesis - but that will be for personal use/pleasure only not performance.

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#9

Then the answer is no the HS can’t do this as is without extra stuff.

You can’t store arp sequences in to a patch for instance.

You can quickly play in by hand, arp sequences, and loop them in the order played, and vary them (like swing, adding ratchet. I think i would be able to learn the patterns in the examples and play them in reliably and quickly, with the chord changes, with one hand. But then you can’t play anything else but that sequence. My keyboard skills are moderately good.

Aside: This was fun, i tried something different for me – i used an (internal) LFO, put it in step mode (up to 8 steps, that can be matched to tempo), and then carefully dialed in a sequence, that i sent off to Oscillator 2. I set its speed to be pretty slow, note like speed. This creates arp like melody that you can store in the patch,. Then i ran the regular arpeggiator which moves this LFO step pattern around in an arpeggiated sequence. You can then smooth the LFO step sequence a little, or change the number of steps in the LFO “sequence”. Instantly mind blown. Kind of like a violin, playing a repeating pattern. You modify any part of twenty different things and immediately you’re off to some other world. This always happens to me when i try something new. Thank you paulmapp8306 for sending me off on this little trip!

#10

Cant program the arps into patches on the Argon as it stands either. You can program the patterns and save them - just you have to then select the arp pattern seperately from the patch.

I have spoken to Modal, and they have plans shortly - where you can program a pattern, then import it into EITHER the sequencer OR the arpegiator (with control lanes as well so you can filter sweep an arp pattern for instance) - and allow these patterns to be linked to patches.

My keyboard skills are moderate at best (IMO at least)

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#11

Can you point to this additive arpeggiation in the manual? I’m not seeing any way to input notes on pads other than holding a chord - any new note starts a new arpeggio…

Hydrasynth from ASM - Tips, Tricks and Queries
#12

Its not there yet - its coming in a future FW update. Ive spoken a lot to the designers - given some ideas, some of which they like and intend to implement - others they like but have a different way of implementing - this is the case with patterns being assignable to arp or seq.

#13

Oh - the hold function depends on the FW. It was implemented in 1.2 I believe. There is arp only when keys pressed, hold - which was the original additive type hold, then a new latch which holds the pattern until another key is pressed - when it changes to the new keys (which is how a traditional latched arp works).

It was actually mentioned in one of Models recent videos - but cant remember which.

#14

Sweet demo, love the trick Nick does with the RK-006 and the Roli block to get a tiny MPE controller. Would work for either unit and the Peak also. The Modal unit looks pretty small especially compared to the Pittsburg microvolt if folks have limited desk space.

#15

Looks like a flimsy mess to me.

FYI, the Peak doesn’t support MPE… Yet. :crossed_fingers:

Cheers!

#16

why flimsy? - bluetooth to the RK and plug directly into the Modal?