AR+A4, overkill for techno music, or ultimate setup?

SB-SIX · 2014-05-08T06:13:00.000Z

[quote=““invisible acropolis””]

[quote=“Ranzenberger”]As this thread covers A4 and AR as a “team” I have one question:

In which way would you link those two? AR output → A4 input or A4 output → AR input?

[/quote]

I cant really understand why you guys would drop 3K on some super killer synth/sequencers, and not drop a few hundred on a proper mixer for proper routing and outputs, etc?

really boggles my mind actually

if you have more than 1 device, you should probably have a mixer of some sort… its just… i dont understand why you wouldnt use one, if you care anything about your audio quality and workflow and so forth[/quote]
I can think of some reasons, like portability and space, but yes, being able to control the signals of your gear is a must!. I sold the mixer in favor of a motu 828. It works standalone, has eq/compression and gives you the ability to record all instruments on seperate tracks.

Paland · 2014-05-08T07:04:44.000Z

""Ranzenberger"":

As this thread covers A4 and AR as a “team” I have one question:

In which way would you link those two? AR output → A4 input or A4 output → AR input?

The AR input can go straight thru to the master comp/dist can’t it? If so it would be very interesting to go A4->AR and smush frequencies together from for example bass (A4) and kick/toms (AR) through the effects for some dirty pump.

Paland · 2014-05-08T07:08:39.000Z

[quote=““invisible acropolis””]

[quote=“Ranzenberger”]As this thread covers A4 and AR as a “team” I have one question:

In which way would you link those two? AR output → A4 input or A4 output → AR input?

[/quote]

I cant really understand why you guys would drop 3K on some super killer synth/sequencers, and not drop a few hundred on a proper mixer for proper routing and outputs, etc?

really boggles my mind actually

if you have more than 1 device, you should probably have a mixer of some sort… its just… i dont understand why you wouldnt use one, if you care anything about your audio quality and workflow and so forth[/quote]
It’s not about cost. Routing Elektrons through each other is part of the beauty of having more than 1. There are some really interesting stuff going on when you do. I always put stuff through the A4 to add effects. Then i do P-locks to the effects as they affect both the A4 and the input sound (like, do a “side chain” pump on the reverb, it’s awesome. Or assign performance macro’s to input parameters/effects). Then i finish things off in the Octatrack and go mental with the crossfader on inputs and sample tracks. The chain you have here is insane, and what you can do with it in realtime is amazing.

IT’S ART MAN, ART!

nnbveh · 2014-05-08T08:06:22.000Z

Yes, learning two boxes at the same time, kind of makes my head explode a bit, so i panic and feel like getting rid of one in favour of concentrating on another, i still can return it so would be easy…

But, i’ve just watched this video, and it made me realise how cool the A4 is and how good it can feet in what i want to work on!

EDIT: tried to embed the video, but it goes crazy and embeds 10 copies of it after each other or something! The video was “Elektron Analog 4 Tutorial #1 - Oscillators and Velocity Mod.” from SecretMusicUK.

The idea was to put together minimal hardware setup which would cover lots of ground and last for years in terms of staying actual sounding and deep enough not to get bored from, and looks like analog offerings from Elektron are the best bet with the Overbridge coming and all the functionally they’ve got already, plus, who knows what the upgrades will bring to the AR, hmm

I think i will try to calm down, put myself together, stop to panic and methodically, step by step learn my new gear, and if i want just to bang some stuff i always can lock the A4 and play with AR only,hehe.

Oh, and the mixer question from that other post: as i’ve said, i wanted to have minimal setup, like two boxes which wit into backpack, so yes, portability mostly, plus i’m planning to use laptop for mixing duties later when Overbridge will be available. And it is fun to plug these into each other, i can plug A4 into A4 for compressing all the stuff together, and still can use individual outputs of AR to send signals into A4 for some additional processing if i want, or even use the beats as a source of some voices for some complex rhythmical structures…

Guys, it is a great discussion, you really help me all to figure out things here.

Sometimes you just have to let it out,hehe.

Thanks!

jaalmadakan · 2014-05-08T09:01:39.000Z

AR+A4 seems like a really overkill setup.

Get it and sell your computer.

nnbveh · 2014-05-08T12:48:44.000Z

""jaalmadakan"":

AR+A4 seems like a really overkill setup.

Get it and sell your computer.

Hehe, selling my computer would definitely help to concentrate on my new music setup, but i’m afraid it not gonna happen…

invisible_acropolis · 2014-05-09T00:34:33.000Z

""Paland"":

[quote=“invisible acropolis”][quote=“Ranzenberger”]As this thread covers A4 and AR as a “team” I have one question:

In which way would you link those two? AR output → A4 input or A4 output → AR input?

I cant really understand why you guys would drop 3K on some super killer synth/sequencers, and not drop a few hundred on a proper mixer for proper routing and outputs, etc?

really boggles my mind actually

if you have more than 1 device, you should probably have a mixer of some sort… its just… i dont understand why you wouldnt use one, if you care anything about your audio quality and workflow and so forth[/quote]
It’s not about cost. Routing Elektrons through each other is part of the beauty of having more than 1. There are some really interesting stuff going on when you do. I always put stuff through the A4 to add effects. Then i do P-locks to the effects as they affect both the A4 and the input sound (like, do a “side chain” pump on the reverb, it’s awesome. Or assign performance macro’s to input parameters/effects). Then i finish things off in the Octatrack and go mental with the crossfader on inputs and sample tracks. The chain you have here is insane, and what you can do with it in realtime is amazing.

IT’S ART MAN, ART![/quote]
ok so the signal processing is that important? honestly i feel like you would need to be pretty experienced with the engineering side of things in order to pull it off successfully in terms of having good audio quality (balanced levels, nice separation, clean highs, thick lows, etc.) in your final results… especially from the comments ive seen regarding people having trouble with the gain staging between devices and so on

in other words, i doubt its the kind of knowledge that can be imparted in a forum discussion

but yeh im just skeptical, its an interesting topic nonetheless

nrpn · 2014-05-09T01:06:43.000Z

AR+A4 is a massively enviable duo that will certainly slay. Your stress will pass with time in the cockpit and considering that Overbridge will provide that “VST” even more so.
By thr time it arrives you may have already ditched your computer.

Think of it as investment diversity.

Also I found it useful to pick up a couple sound libraries for the A4 to get into it. I really enjoyed Darenagers Druma to start familiarizing myself with programming it.

nrpn · 2014-05-09T06:16:20.000Z

Who knows what floats this forum’s boat. Doing is king

Paland · 2014-05-09T08:22:23.000Z

[quote=““invisible acropolis””]

[quote=“Paland”][quote=“invisible acropolis”][quote=“Ranzenberger”]As this thread covers A4 and AR as a “team” I have one question:

In which way would you link those two? AR output → A4 input or A4 output → AR input?

[/quote]

I cant really understand why you guys would drop 3K on some super killer synth/sequencers, and not drop a few hundred on a proper mixer for proper routing and outputs, etc?

really boggles my mind actually

if you have more than 1 device, you should probably have a mixer of some sort… its just… i dont understand why you wouldnt use one, if you care anything about your audio quality and workflow and so forth[/quote]
It’s not about cost. Routing Elektrons through each other is part of the beauty of having more than 1. There are some really interesting stuff going on when you do. I always put stuff through the A4 to add effects. Then i do P-locks to the effects as they affect both the A4 and the input sound (like, do a “side chain” pump on the reverb, it’s awesome. Or assign performance macro’s to input parameters/effects). Then i finish things off in the Octatrack and go mental with the crossfader on inputs and sample tracks. The chain you have here is insane, and what you can do with it in realtime is amazing.

IT’S ART MAN, ART![/quote]
ok so the signal processing is that important? honestly i feel like you would need to be pretty experienced with the engineering side of things in order to pull it off successfully in terms of having good audio quality (balanced levels, nice separation, clean highs, thick lows, etc.) in your final results… especially from the comments ive seen regarding people having trouble with the gain staging between devices and so on

in other words, i doubt its the kind of knowledge that can be imparted in a forum discussion

but yeh im just skeptical, its an interesting topic nonetheless[/quote]
Guess it depends on what you’re after. I’m not looking to make the next Lady Gaga hit with pristine mastering and a perfect mix. I’m looking to experiment and have fun in a live-oriented setup. That’s where Elektron really shines for me.

bluewolfse7en · 2014-05-09T09:57:49.000Z

[quote=“” nnbveh""]

EDIT: tried to embed the video, but it goes crazy and embeds 10 copies of it after each other or something! The video was “Elektron Analog 4 Tutorial #1 - Oscillators and Velocity Mod.” from SecretMusicUK.

[/quote]

Yeah I had this & was like ’ wtf’ but figured it out.
After you embed you vid using </> you automatically hit ‘Return’ to move your cursor down.
Each time you do that it duplicates your vid link!
You can check to see what’s happening by looking at the code, page emblem, far right of the tool bar

Purusha · 2014-05-09T10:47:39.000Z

""nnbveh"":

Oh, and VST which i was comparing this particular analog synth in a way feel much more ‘analog’ then A4, in terms of the interface in particular…
I think i just prefer to have all the controls on one page, or, in hardware world, one to one knob to function ratio. You make it sound like i compare analog sound to VST sound or something, which i don’t.

You’ll get that with OverBridge.

Ranzenberger · 2014-05-09T11:14:48.000Z

[quote=““invisible acropolis””]

[quote=“Ranzenberger”]As this thread covers A4 and AR as a “team” I have one question:

In which way would you link those two? AR output → A4 input or A4 output → AR input?

[/quote]

I cant really understand why you guys would drop 3K on some super killer synth/sequencers, and not drop a few hundred on a proper mixer for proper routing and outputs, etc?

really boggles my mind actually

[/quote]
Hey,
my question was meant more generally, so if one routing direction makes more sense than the other due to possible manufacturer’s intention.
I have to say that the world of hardware synths is completely new to me… only managed VSTs and Ableton’s Synths so far.
What I’ve read so far it is all about what I am after… in terms of sound design. There is no rule. So I would have to experiment if I once owned both machines
Thanks for your answers!

nnbveh · 2014-05-09T12:08:49.000Z

""Purusha"":

[quote=“nnbveh”]Oh, and VST which i was comparing this particular analog synth in a way feel much more ‘analog’ then A4, in terms of the interface in particular…
I think i just prefer to have all the controls on one page, or, in hardware world, one to one knob to function ratio. You make it sound like i compare analog sound to VST sound or something, which i don’t.

You’ll get that with OverBridge.

:)[/quote]
yeah, i thought about it too, in fact,i’ve got the editor for A4 already, the one made in Max/Msp, will try to use it while learning the thing…

invisible_acropolis · 2014-05-10T04:09:48.000Z

""Paland"":

Guess it depends on what you’re after. I’m not looking to make the next Lady Gaga hit with pristine mastering and a perfect mix. I’m looking to experiment and have fun in a live-oriented setup. That’s where Elektron really shines for me.

does quality audio production only apply to billboard top 40 for you?

also - im not sure why you would need to bring that kind of psychological defense mechanism into this, but i can guess

nirun · 2014-05-10T06:34:13.000Z

[quote=““invisible acropolis””]

[quote=“Paland”]Guess it depends on what you’re after. I’m not looking to make the next Lady Gaga hit with pristine mastering and a perfect mix. I’m looking to experiment and have fun in a live-oriented setup. That’s where Elektron really shines for me.
[/quote]

does quality audio production only apply to billboard top 40 for you?

also - im not sure why you would need to bring that kind of psychological defense mechanism into this, but i can guess[/quote]
also can’t forget, that what invisible acropolis is suggesting actually allows you MORE freedom to experiment and have fun vs jumping through pages of amp settings on the OT/A4/AR whatever your heart desires.

A mixer, gives you hands on control of levels across ALL your elektron machines/synths/sound sources. Try controlling the levels of various tracks on multiple machines at once and compare to how much faster this is with physical faders. One hand motion vs multiple clicks and knob turns on multiple machines/interfaces.

do not dismiss the suggestion of someone who is simply trying to help you experiment AND have fun in a more efficient manner

even in this live set, the artist is focused more on the mixer and just a few channels than the Elektron machines. This of course is not the only way to use them but proves that a mixer has more utility than for lady gaga sound quality (whatever that means)

nnbveh · 2014-05-10T10:27:42.000Z

""nirun"":

[quote=“invisible acropolis”][quote=“Paland”]Guess it depends on what you’re after. I’m not looking to make the next Lady Gaga hit with pristine mastering and a perfect mix. I’m looking to experiment and have fun in a live-oriented setup. That’s where Elektron really shines for me.

does quality audio production only apply to billboard top 40 for you?

also - im not sure why you would need to bring that kind of psychological defense mechanism into this, but i can guess[/quote]
also can’t forget, that what invisible acropolis is suggesting actually allows you MORE freedom to experiment and have fun vs jumping through pages of amp settings on the OT/A4/AR whatever your heart desires.

A mixer, gives you hands on control of levels across ALL your elektron machines/synths/sound sources. Try controlling the levels of various tracks on multiple machines at once and compare to how much faster this is with physical faders. One hand motion vs multiple clicks and knob turns on multiple machines/interfaces.

do not dismiss the suggestion of someone who is simply trying to help you experiment AND have fun in a more efficient manner

even in this live set, the artist is focused more on the mixer and just a few channels than the Elektron machines. This of course is not the only way to use them but proves that a mixer has more utility than for lady gaga sound quality (whatever that means)

[/quote]
I’d agree that mixer can be a creative weapon, but in case of this particular setup, AR+A4 there’s a problem - no individual outputs on A4…So in any case, some part of the mixing and levelling would have to be done inside of the box itself, or, which i’m personally counting on, on the laptop with the help of the ovebridge and some controller with faders.
The guy on the video doesn’t have AR with it’s performance page and scenes, or A4 with it’s macros, and i’m not sure i’m seeing him working with scenes on the OT that much, well, it’s just his choice, kind of classic way to play live electronic music, IF he’s using the mixer for the transitions and such, and not just for the levelling of his stuff in real time, which is not such a fun thing to do in my opinion.
I’d prefer the levels to be matched in advance and to concentrate on actual performance part…but i guess that’s not that easy, so yeah, problem of dealing with the levels and controlling them in the most efficient way stays on the list

nirun · 2014-05-10T15:45:31.000Z

It is 100% possible to save all your amp/eq settings in your patterns and have everything balanced before entering a gig but even in the studio, a mixer or interface with many inputs/outputs saves you SO much time and gives you way more flexibility if you so need it.

I know personally, I’m feeling inadequate with a 4 in 4 out interface and with the AR being delivered soon I would love to have all the 8 outputs tracked individually and sent through a mixer even if to monitor levels. Add an OT with its 4 outs, the A4 with its 2 outs, and a few external synths with nice filters and your mixer/interface becomes your best friend/control brain/patchbay for all your gear. I am definitely biased I guess, but to me this sounds more efficient

overbridge is going to be awesome BUTTTTTTTTT I would love to purchase one of these soon. it’s quite expensive but I’m making it a personal goal of mine to save up for this little beast

poonti · 2014-05-10T19:15:36.000Z

AR + A4 is the correct amount of KILL for techno!

Paland · 2014-05-12T09:06:47.000Z

[quote=““invisible acropolis””]

[quote=“Paland”]Guess it depends on what you’re after. I’m not looking to make the next Lady Gaga hit with pristine mastering and a perfect mix. I’m looking to experiment and have fun in a live-oriented setup. That’s where Elektron really shines for me.
[/quote]

does quality audio production only apply to billboard top 40 for you?

also - im not sure why you would need to bring that kind of psychological defense mechanism into this, but i can guess[/quote]
You said you didn’t understand. I tried to explain how i do it and why. Simple as that.