Anyone using mastering hardware for gigs?

Purusha · 2014-11-21T11:24:30.000Z

I’ve just scored a TC Finalizer 96k at a VERY good price.

I’ve been playing around with it on the back-end of my Elektron set-up and with careful set-up, it does make a positive impact I reckon.

Anyone else using similar back-end systems?

Any tips and hints?

I guess the big thing I have to be careful of is - not overloading the analogue inputs, so I’m leaving a fair bit of headroom and restoring the signal via digital gain in the box. My regular on-stage partner Pascal, can have a habit of dropping in surprise, very loud analogue synth sounds. I guess I could use the finalizer on the material I have control of, or maybe force him through an analogue compressor? It would probably have to be stereo since he normally sub-mixes and gives me a stereo pair.

nirun · 2014-11-21T13:16:34.000Z

you can utilize a compressor/limiter to put before the finalizer to tame peaks and prevent clipping

Other than a tad bit of latency added from the A to D and then D to A conversion when it finally hits the PA there’s nothing stopping you

edit: (after googling) appears the finalizer has a “Variable Ceiling multiband Limiter” so you can use that! there’s a soft clip function too

Purusha · 2014-11-21T14:06:38.000Z

Yeah, the Finalizer has multiple stages of potential limiting.

It’s the getting the signal in there in the first place which is where overloads can potentially occur.

Once you’re in, there’s loads of options.

nirun · 2014-11-21T14:53:04.000Z

well then it’s really up to the musician and his understanding of the tools. If someone decides to scream into a mic while everyone else is singing quietly there isn’t much you can do other than slam the fader down.

Maybe I am missing something but it seems like just some careful attention to gain staging and making sure all improvised sections stay within a certain threshold of amplification will solve the issue. Using a digital box like the finalizer might be more suited to critical studio listening situations than in live performance situations.

check out the stuff by these guys

http://www.fmraudio.com/products.html

small units and proven to be very useful live and in the studio

Purusha · 2014-11-21T16:04:20.000Z

In this case, it’s arguably more a case of some old analogue synth getting out of hand when extreme resonance is used on the filters (for FX). That’s usually what does it.

I’m usually on top of it, but potentially not before it’s hit the outputs.

Analogue is arguably more appropriate in this scenario since the effect of overload isn’t as nasty.

There aren’t many good analogue multi-band compressors out there though. Certainly not at the price I got this unit for!

I could feasibly use something like the RNC before the signal hits the ADCs.

An analogue stereo compressor used as a limiter might be worth considering.

…or I could just use this as an excuse to tell Pasc to be more careful than usual with the levels.

nirun · 2014-11-21T17:41:49.000Z

haha I hear ya, happens to me sometimes with the modular…

i know I felt like I was missing a certain glue & polish to my recordings as well and opted to grab a 500 series lunchbox stereo compressor & eq for tracking. I recommend the Elysia stuff, fairly priced considering the quality.

Still experimenting with my setup but having so much fun I need to constantly remind myself to hit record

knobgoblin · 2014-11-21T23:52:19.000Z

I would second the Elysia stuff. It’s very high quality and reasonably priced for what you get. Their xpressor is the most flexible and useful 500 series comp that I’ve used (we have 2 10 space racks full of dynamics processors, so I’ve tried a few). It makes an excellent limiter if you want to use it that way, and will be much more forgiving of the occasional amplitude spike than the ADC on the finalizer. You can even hear how the xpressor sounds in conjunction with elektron gear by checking out the Nicholas Lem videos.

bluewolfse7en · 2014-11-22T00:36:17.000Z

I’ve used a finalizer pretty extensively in studio mastering situations & there’s no doubt with careful setup it can make a remarkable difference.
I know an engineer who runs one live & personally I don’t think it works, well not for him anyway lol. Not tried it myself live however, maybe I should.
I think for a live show where you’re supplying only Left & Right, if you had your own engineer & time to soundcheck properly, it could make a noticeable difference.
Without an engineer/decent soundcheck I think you could end up in a big mess pretty quickly. Not trying to put you off, I’m all for experimenting, but I’d use it with caution

Purusha · 2014-11-22T15:46:34.000Z

Yeah - I think I’ve now had enough years around this kind of kit to suss out how to use it sensibly.

I’m sure if I was back at the beginning, I’ve be very heavy-handed.

MichalHo · 2014-11-22T15:55:56.000Z

if you are playing out live in a proper club/venue, you can assume with 99% certainty that the system you are playing on has a limiter going on at all times.

if you carefully set your limiter to stay below the threshold of the final limiter, you should not lose audio quality, but neither will you gain much loudness…

so in the end, i always opt for no limiter when playing live.
and loud noises out of nowhere can be quite charming, as long as they aren’t overdone…

PS some well placed subtractive EQing is usually more effective in certain rooms…

Purusha · 2014-11-22T21:39:05.000Z

MichalHo, yes - pretty-much every rig I’ve played on has some kind of limiter (and I’ve played on some very big PAs), but I wouldn’t get the signal from the PA’s limiter going into the Finalizer.

Of course, one of the features of the Finaliser is a very useful parametric EQ. It’s worth it for that alone!

bluewolfse7en · 2014-11-22T21:58:12.000Z

For me its not about hitting limiters or staying within boundaries its about using multi band compression to its full effect. Without a decent pair of ears out front i don’t know how most people would achieve this.
Running your own events as Purusha does would, (hopefully), mean a healthy set up time & I’m sure he’d pull it off no problem. For the average person turning up to participate in an event I could see running a Finalizer from stage being a major headache tho. Dialing stuff in based upon what you hear onstage could be disastrous out front.
Ive seen many an artist try to take control of foh from the stage & rarely have I heard it work.
Chase & Status for e.g. use a similar set up where by they bypass the console & run directly into the PA processors, (XTA’s last time I worked with them). This is then monitored/manipulated out front by an engineer familiar with their set.

Purusha · 2014-11-23T11:36:40.000Z

I’m actually thinking of this approach for when I’m working in smaller backrooms, doing more chilled down-beat stuff.

Often, the PA set-up is fairly crude in those scenarios.

I’m often going straight through a DJ mixer into a set of active speakers.

As bluewolfse7en says, I’d probably only use this method if I had enough time to do a really thorough sound-check.

I guess one way to look at it though is - most people wouldn’t be upset if a compressor were used as part of the artist’s kit on say, a bass synth. I always use compressors on my guitar (stomp box). Multi-band compressing the whole thing for effect is arguably not that much different - depending on how you look at it.

Although, whilst using the Finalizer, the effect I’ve been using has been subtle. As it should be I reckon.

When doing main-stage dance stuff on a big rig, I tend to trust the sound engineer. He’s your best friend in those scenarios.

…although, I have come across some numpty engineers too.

Interesting comments though guys - thanks!

MichalHo · 2014-11-23T12:05:40.000Z

Not much to add.
A lot of console operators will slap 4:1 compression with -6db threshhold on your sum and let the PA limiter take care of the rest. This of course will not happen in a DJ style club, where you often are forced to play through a dj mixer.
Personally i run a familiar track off my rig at soundcheck (insist!) and listen off stage. Then make minor adjustments, keep in mind empty venues sound harsher than full ones. Also, not everyone can afford their own soundie.
I run my own night once a month, as well. My experience is that turning up the gain on a soundcraft or better will usually saturate the sound in a more pleasing manner than two serially chained digital limiters…