Analog Rytm vs a computer setup

WamP · 2014-10-28T10:04:31.000Z

Hi there,

First time I post here so please bear with me…
I hope it’s a good place to ask this question. It’s a genuine one for me.

I am not a professional musician anymore - I used to be a cellist many years ago - but I enjoy doing music in my spare time.
I have always used computers for this, mostly because I had one and it makes for a “cheap” setup and boundless possibilities. But I am already spending 10h/day in front of a computer for work, and it really sucks to have to switch it on again to create some music.

So I am contemplating switching to some hardware, starting with an Analog Rytm. It seems like a fantastic machine. But - for me - it’s a very significant investment and I don’t want to make a mistake.

So in short: are there things you do / can do with a hardware machine that you can’t do with a computer (besides the analog sound and effects I guess)? Are there people here who did the same “switch” from all computer to hardware instruments and could share their experience?

To be totally blunt: I am concerned I’ll be limited by what a dedicated machine can offer vs a computer based setup.

Thanks a lot!
Pierre

stutech · 2014-10-28T10:31:13.000Z

Yes, I am afraid you will never find a dedicated machine that can has that much CPU power, RAM, storage, connectivity and total programmability.

On the other hand, if you just stick to using a limited set of dedicated instruments, you will spend a lot less time configuring/updating/upgrading/pondering about computer technicalities and more time on actually playing the instruments.

The AR, while being a phenomenal contemporary groovebox, is severely limited compared to a computer. Having said that, unless your idea of music is something that’s highly compositional/orchestral, you can actually come up with some music using nothing else but the rytm (but this might require a spartan attitude/mindset). What are the biggest merits to a limitless computer system in your music making ideas/scenarios? If it’s a sophisticated composing environment (like in logic for example), you might want to look into “workstation” type products instead…

FWIW I am coming a full circle back to working OTB, after getting seriously disillusioned/uninspired about using computers in music making (lot of my reasons for this are similar to your feelings).

IMO you always need a few different instruments and some fx to feel comfy, but I would not hesitate to go 100% rytm if I really had to. But my music has always been rather spartan and simplistic so YMMV…

Blip · 2014-10-28T11:08:20.000Z

Limitations imposed by hardware are certainly not a bad thing, but it does end up shaping how you work. In that sense, it is important to have an affinity with how it “sounds” and the workflow… I’m fairly new to Elektron sequencers, but i have to say that so far i find them very well thought out, and there is huge scope within their design.

For me, working with hardware is about having a dedicated box that does one job. I could probably do what i do in DAW land, but the process would be different, more time-consuming and it would sound different. I also find happy accidents happen more often with hardware.

t · 2014-10-28T11:32:02.000Z

Keep in mind that the RYTM is still primarily a drum machine. You can of course do a lot of interesting stuff with it, including producing full tracks, but it’s never going to have the flexibility of a computer-based setup or even a full-fledged MIDI sequencer.

I’ve switched away from the computer for music making for the same reason that you mentioned and I’m now using a setup that consists of an Analog Four, a RYTM, a MPC-1000, a small modular system, and a Waldorf Micro Q keyboard. I finally settled of this selection of gear after going through a lot of different devices.

If you’re hesitant about spending money on a RYTM, then I’d recommend picking up a second-hand MPC-1000. They can be had for cheap these days, and make for a very powerful MIDI sequencer and sampler as long as you install JJOS2XL. Depending on the kind of sounds you’re after you can then also add a second hand VA or a simple analog synth such as the Micro- or MiniBrute and first figure out if you even like a hardware setup before you spend the big bucks.

avantronica · 2014-10-28T13:02:27.000Z

Ultimately it’s likely an individual thing. There’s your ideas and your ears, then there’s something in between which facilitates the creativity. I have a load of software and controllers but nothing comes close to the fun of using dedicated hardware for me, some more than others, Elektron score very high here. At least Elektron stuff holds its value if it doesn’t work for you, try it first. Limitations are a good thing for creativity and it’ll help keep you focused, but just be sure the limitations are clear as possible by researching first. Fwiw, the A4 may be a more flexible compromise if you need a broader palette. Elektron interfaces need some dedication but it becomes second nature and facilitates progress. At least the hardware doesn’t distract you with other things like email and social media. Above all I think the results possible in particular from analogue hardware are worth the risk if you are into sound, the resolution on settings in the A4 is higher, so the nuances are better enabled. The AR seems a lot more focused , but the results I’ve heard from it are astonishing. Good dedicated hardware is a hoot if the balance of flexibility and user
Interface is just right. I wouldn’t swap any elektron box for three iPads running any apps and maintaining computers is such a drag until they break inevitably. Try one

WamP · 2014-10-28T14:21:20.000Z

Thank you all for your feedback.

Unfortunately I can’t think of a shop that would have it on display where I live (London UK - it’s crazy by the way!!).
So I will order it online and hope for the best (or… return it)!

Again, thanks!

PeterHanes · 2014-10-28T14:30:13.000Z

""WamP"":

Thank you all for your feedback.

Unfortunately I can’t think of a shop that would have it on display where I live (London UK - it’s crazy by the way!!).
So I will order it online and hope for the best (or… return it)!

Again, thanks!

Four stores listed in London, five if you’re willing to venture as far as Romford:
http://www.elektron.se/find-a-store

natrixgli · 2014-10-28T15:04:20.000Z

Grab an Arturia SparkLE.

It runs on modest resources, and it’s cheap. You can use that hybrid drum machine to dip your feet in and see how you like it. Plus you can use it without looking at the computer screen too much.

The Rytm is great but the SparkLE is so cheap it’s almost silly NOT to have one, and just tons of fun to play. Plus it’s a heck of a lot easier to get your head around than the Rytm.

Blip · 2014-10-28T15:17:55.000Z

i went to red dog music near clapham. they had it brought in just for me try it, nice ppl down there!

restlessboy · 2014-10-28T16:24:38.000Z

West End DJ / Production might possibly have one on display you could play with.
http://www.westenddj.co.uk

JuanSOLO · 2014-10-28T18:40:03.000Z

Electron make great hardware for people trying to move away from computers. However I would think the Octatrack would be a better solution. It does a whole lot. It’s not analogue, but you can compose 8 tracks of audio, and 8 tracks of midi. Plenty of room for drums, and all sorts of other sounds. It’s a great central piece to start with. Some claim it’s hard to learn. It’s complex, but I found it easy to understand the basics leaving a lot of room for learning.

Just to add and echo whats been said.
Hardware is going to create limitations, but I find these limitations are parameters to work within, keeping me focused on what I can do, as opposed to getting bogged down by the endless options. The endless options become uninspiring, especially after a long day working behind a computer.
Limitations can allow you to actually learn the hardware to it’s full potential, inside and out. You become one with the gear. I like that, and I get way more accomplished than I ever did with a DAW.

Biome_Digital · 2014-10-28T19:45:19.000Z

I spent most time creating on hardware boxes (Rytm & various synth) but it all comes together in the box for me.

I could make music all day on just the Rytm, but it would be a certain type of electronic music. Techno, deep house etc…

I recommend using hardware and software together. Why limit yourself?!

R7 · 2014-10-28T21:06:38.000Z

Im somewhere inbetween a hardware and software setup. My background is ITB but I was nevet satisfied with the sound or the bugs and issues you come up with on a PC. I since have moved on to a Analog 4 and Rytm based setup. Along with a Novation BS2, a Korg ER1 and whatever gear I pick up in the future Im quite happy with the sound finally. However, writing and arranging music on the Elektron devices is not the easiest to create finished songs with. The 64 step sequencer is quite limiting for me and trying to expand on this with chains and song mode is not a great solution to someone like me who really needs a more timeline based visual reference for musical events. I need something like multitrack notation or your average daw track view to keep track of everything.

So my current idea is to pick up a Ipad Air 2 and run Cubasis on it. Ive got a compatible soundcard (Steinberg UR44) so writing, arranging and recording should be easy enough. Ill still have to work around some things because the A4 and Rytm dont send midi notes from their sequencer so I’ll have to write longer parts in Cubasis or send pattern change messages from Cubasis to avoid chain and song mode.

This should give me the flexibility of a DAW based setup and the sound and control of hardware with a more streamlined interface than working on a PC.

Someone above me recommended Arturias Spark as an alternative and I think its mostly great also. The virtual analog and physical modelling synthesis is IMO best in class and sounds better than pretty much every other drum synth that will run on Windows. However the software interface could be more streamlined. There are lots of pages to the gui and the hardware just does not have enough knobs or functions to not also have to use your mouse or trackpad with the software. If I didnt have a Rytm I would be almost exclusively using spark for for drum synth duties as it sounds that good but the Rytms analog sounds that much better. I’ll get back into Spark one of these days though. It’s physical modelling is amazing and somehing the Rytm doesn’t do. Both play samples but on the Rytm they run through a filter and VCA so they get that analog touch. Sparks cheap though and the Rytm is almost ridiculously expensive so that does matter a bit. But youll still have to have your computer on to use Spark. I hope they make an ipad version eventually.

Revin · 2014-10-31T14:38:52.000Z

I recently switched to an all hardware setup from 10+ years of working with virtual synths, I even worked for Native Instruments, and I still love the flexibility of software. I was after a more focused experience in my music creation so I sought after dedicated hardware instruments and it has been the best move for me artistically. For what it is worth, I have the Analog Rytm, Analog Keys, Blofeld Keys, BS II, Pittsburgh Modular Foundation, MS-20, a 1979 Rhodes Mark II, and a slew of outboard effects. It cost me a small fortune and I probably could reproduce a lot of the sounds in software and sampled instruments for a fraction of the cost, but for me I am after the experience of playing and mastering a physical instrument, and in particular, on synths, I am looking for those dedicated controls. The new NI keyboard looks like a step in the right direction for the hardware/software bridge, but I am also in love with the idea of having a room full of gear and playing the mad scientist routing cables everywhere, and jumping between physical instruments. I have found that having fewer tools is an amazing experience. Just using my Rhodes with pedal fx and I can go on for hours playing that thing. Add in the Analog Rytm and I am in heaven. Sometimes less is more. Now for your needs, I question if the Analog Rytm is the first thing you should get. You are pretty limited to drums. You can dig deep and create more, but it does require a lot of work and a strong adoption of the Electron workflow which can be tough to get your head around at first. I find the Analog Keys to be amazing and probably a better starting point for you. It really depends on how far down the rabbit hole you are willing to go. Guys make amazing things with just an Octatrack and a Korg Volca. Lots of great hardware options and don’t forget the wonderful world of modular synths!

dubathonic · 2014-10-31T15:23:10.000Z

""WamP"":

So I am contemplating switching to some hardware, starting with an Analog Rytm. It seems like a fantastic machine. But - for me - it’s a very significant investment and I don’t want to make a mistake.

Welcome Pierre

Lots of good answers here already, so the one thing I’ll add is: If you end up deciding an Elektron is the direction you want to take, accept that it may not be able to do everything you initially envision, and choose the one you feel most inclined to spend a good bit of time with.

Elektrons are fun, deep and capable, but they demand patience to learn their workflow, which some find idiosyncratic. So listen to lots of demo tracks and start with the one that makes your ears happiest.

h4ndcrafted · 2014-11-01T22:13:44.000Z

Edit: missed a bit of the post.

If the RYTM is too much of an investment , consider the Korg Elctribes mark 2 out I December and the sampler version in 2015.

These things have almost no learning curve, but the new versions do not have a song mode.

However they will bounce the audio inside the machine for export, and if you have Ableton you can bounce as a project folder.

You won’t get the analogue goodness, but having tried a King Korg, the synth versions engine and filters are taken from this, I can say the DSP sounds superb.

Madchiller · 2014-11-01T23:01:53.000Z

Hey Pierre,

Welcome. As a touring playback engineer “protools guy” I would spend 12-16hours a day in front of computers. This completely killed my motivation to use computers for making my own music. So much I didn’t even want to use hardware with menus. So I started building a modular synth. I have never looked back. I just got an analog rytm, and I can say that this is nearly perfect for me. The menus are not that deep and most things can be had very quickly.

One thing no seemed to mention is SOUND. I have used pretty much every soft synth and plugin imaginable, and I can say that nothing truly captures the analog sound or impact. They get close in many cases, but nothing nails it IMHO. There is an organic quality that computers seem to lack, and there are just too many variables in an analog circuit that creates character not found in the box(computer). So I say get the best of both worlds. Analog hardware with digital control. The digital control will offer you all the automation you would normally get with a computer, and then you get the sound of real analog circuits. I have yet to hear a soft rhodes that can beat the real thing.

good luck.

Best!
Chad