Analog Rytm OS 1.7x: bug reports

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
43

I’ve reported this bug on 1.61 and Elektron support responded at the time that it might be intentional, but it seems that this gotten worse now and it makes no sense to me that this is the intended functionality.
when a sample is looped the SMP ON/OFF trig setting stops responding to OFF and it plays the sample regardless, unless both SMP and SYN are off, then all trigs become p-locks and sound stops, but otherwise the sample will always play and trigs don’t respect SMP=OFF.
I’ve made a new (sorry for low quality, couldn’t get my phone to sync so had to record via the camera app) video to demonstrate how one would layer a single cycle wave on top of one of the synth engines, on 1.61 when you would stop the rytm it would stop playing the sample, but now it seems that the sample will keep playing after stop regardless.
I’ve also noticed that if I do [TRK+PLAY] to clear track, when I hit the pad I can still hear the sample playing once, as if it’s stuck in some sort of buffer and only gets cleared after playing once.

any opinions on this? do you think this is a bug or this is the way it should work?

1 Like
44

[NON-BUG] Incidentally … for years I’d had an intermittent R1 problem with CH9 pad not working (only to hit and play but would otherwise work when the pads have other functions, so seemed like a software issue rather than mechanical)

Each time I got to the point of contacting elektron support, usually after a period of non-use and the problem came back, it would mysteriously start working again so I held off sending it in…

This 1.7 firmware update seems to have resolved as no problems experienced yet :grinning:

3 Likes
45

I found it easier to qualify my thoughts by stepping through this methodically, i don’t think it’s a bug, but i think there is a functionality ‘gap’ for looping samples … the steps below bring out the important aspects of this … especially wrt what the SMP toggle actually does and why it is perhaps a slightly misleading setting … it certainly has an unhelpful manifestation as it is, just as you present (and simplified below too) … but it helps account for the behaviour, so i don’t think it’s a bug, but perhaps an oversight for a specific case

New Project (just to be thorough but perhaps not strictly necessary)

Select Track 3 RS (it’s clicky)

Assign the fifth factory waveform sample (i.e. Sin wave C2, it’s soft) to slot 1 and select

Don’t loop sample ( yet ! )

In grid mode put trigs on 1 and 9

Play, let it play throughout unless directed otherwise

On trig page manually deselect SMP, listen, then reselect = all behaving as expected

On trig page manually deselect SYN, listen, then reselect = all behaving as expected

On trig page manually deselect both SMP and SYN, listen, then reselect either alternately = all behaving as expected

Deselect Both SMP and SYN

set Amp Decay to 40

Reselect SYN = only SYN, all fine

Also Reselect SMP = both sound, all fine

Now … What do you expect when you now Deselect SMP ? Should it just sound the SYN ?

Deselect SMP - Syn sounds, but so does the looping sample

Now swap slot 1 for the sample Zen from the extras folder

You still hear Sin C2 loop

You must double stop

Play , You only hear SYN at this stage, so all fine

Reselect SMP, both SYN and SMP play as expected

Deselect SMP, you now hear SYN and SMP, but the sample is no longer being re-triggered in terms of its start ‘phase’ wrt the trig, it is still looping, so we land on different ‘windows’ of the sample when the amp envelope is opened

We can silence the sample by turning off loop (or level)

So, what’s expected, what’s desirable !?!

Should a looping sample be stopped when its phase reset is disabled, what if we don’t want to re-trigger the looping sample or a long sample, but peek into it (without starting from zero) ? There’s a case for that, but it’s not as helpful for single-cycle users

I can’t comment on the difference between 1.61 and 1.70 (if any, it’s not disclosed as changing) but i think the origin of the ‘issue’ lies with what happens when a sample is looping and its SMP toggle is disarmed, what is intended or desirable to happen in all cases

It certainly feels counter intuitive, following the first part of the steps above, but makes more sense latterly

The manual doesn’t really help too much imho, it only states
SYN controls if the synth part of the Sound will be trigged.
SMP controls if the sample part of the Sound will be trigged.

The ‘desired’ outcome can be achieved by toggling off both SMP and LOOP, but that’s not what i think some people are expecting to need to do to silence the sample part

Keep in mind, most synth engines have their own decay and in fact if you ‘flip’ this experiment and have a close to infinite Synth engine play (even the RS one is decaying long enough) and then deselect Syn but keep hammering away with SMP ‘on’ to open the Amp up, you will hear the decaying parts of the synth when the SMP alone is ‘trigged’ (just as you hear the looping sample)

The manual would be technically more accurate if it said ‘retriggered’ in those two clauses above, in both cases the AMP env is opened

I think it’s consistent and explainable, and probably counter-intuitive, i don’t know if we can say it’s a bug because it could be expected and intended, but it certainly leads to a reasonably justifiable state of user confusion about what the SMP toggle is doing … but only for looping samples (or actually for long decaying Synth voices too, as the same issue occurs when you flip the focus) - the ‘desired’ SMP toggle utility might be better served by muting (level to zero) the sample i.e. cutting it off from the feed to the filter, but there’s no intuitive way to do that

It’s almost like those SYN and SMP toggles need a secondary ‘mid’ position, one where it works as present (an engine retrigger) and allows both engines to ring out however they are set and the ‘off’ position would now not only disarm the engine retrigger, but also kill its feed

◉◎◎ = Engine killed + No Retrigger (a new setting for this anomolous case))
◎◉◎ = Engine passes as is through Amp + No Retrigger (what we have now)
◎◎◉ = Retrigger Engine

I think it explains it, but it may not resolve it for you without official comment or perhaps a three state Toggle FR being accepted

5 Likes
46

that’s why I think it’s a bug, looping a sample should have no reflect on the trig parameters, the same way as if you deactivate the lfo/env for a trig from the LFO/ENV params on trig page.

a single cycle wave is perfect example for this, say you want to layer saw wave on top of a tom synth, and you want it to loop to have some length of the wave but not overlapping with other trigs, now you want to p-lock the steps so some will play both syn and smpl parts but some only syn, you can’t do that, even if you p-lock SMP=OFF it still will play the sample, which makes no sense… I shouldn’t p-lock volumes for that, that’s what the SMP param should do:

so I have a trigger in sequence which p-locked NOT to play sample, and it’s not like the sample keeps playing, it gets re-triggered and plays regardless. that makes no sense, the sample should not be re-triggered regardless of it’s settings.
if I want that step not to reset envelope I p-lock the ENV param, or the same thing for LFO…

anyway, if that’s how it works then it should be reflected in the manual, otherwise based on logic and what the manual currently says it’s not working as it should…

1 Like
47

It doesn’t say enough to be reliable either way, i’m trying to understand and explain the behaviour observed, not corroborate the manual or otherwise

It might help to think of it like the A4, the two oscillators can sound continuously, or be disabled - when the amp is opened you hear them both

with the AR whether it’s a finite decaying Synth engine, or a Long sample, or a Looping short sample, the engines will make a sound and opening the Amp up will audition that sound

The two toggles retrigger the engines - but untoggling both does not stop them sounding (as per an analog synth with a similar architecture) - you need a way to stop the sounding engines for it to meet your expectation, it doesn’t mean it’s a ‘bug’ even if it’s not desirable in this scenario, but it’s not me you need to convince

I’m just explaining the behaviour and its potential benefits and some of its inconvenient consequences, it’s not black and white … but the manual isn’t saying enough to stop you reading it as you desire it

In the case of the Envelope and LFO it is also consistent with this ‘reset’ paradigm, the LFO still ‘plays’ it just isn’t reset, the filter still sounds its decaying envelope, it just doesn’t reset, the same with the synth ‘reset’ toggle and the sample ‘reset’ toggle, the synth and sample will continue to sound as per their settings, it’s just that you no longer ‘reset’ them on the trig - the Amp env will trig with OR logic for the SYN or SMP toggles

I get you don’t like it, but you can’t challenge the explanation … but like i said above, the scant documentation on the toggles doesn’t help either way - when the word trigged is used it simply means resetting the engine (and opening(‘trigging’) the Amp envelope)

To not hear the sample when you don’t want to you have to manage it at the source, just as you do with an analog synth feeding a filter - the difference with an analog synth is you can’t stop it ‘looping’ if it’s sounding

It’s consistent across the device, but you want a ‘new’ way to stop the sample when you deselect its ‘reset’

I think you probably want to hit the FR topic or the Documentation topic, or hope that this was an unexpected consequence that they may wish to ‘fix’, but having a long sample or a looped sample be heard without reseting its ‘phase’ is a useful utility, as it is for the envelope and lfo and synth

3 Likes
48

My pad selection has become a lot less reliable. I’m getting random selections in TRK and MUTE modes now. Before 1.70, my pads worked great. Now I have random behavior.

Not good. I was very excited about this upgrade, but now my machine is a worse and less reliable instrument.

I’ve re-run calibration and no change.

TRK and MUTE selection SHOULD NOT be a game a whack-a-mole! I feel like my machine just got ruined by this update.

1 Like
49

MKI user here. The upgrade hasn’t gone too well for me… First, the warm-up calibration is failing on “Filters 2/2 SKIP”

Secondly, the STA and END parameters on the sample page aren’t being properly updated by the E and F pots (perhaps due to the failed calibration). A workaround for this is to send the correct values as MIDI from an external controller or script to CC 28 (STA) and 29 (END).

Lastly, velocity settings (especially parameter locks) from the trig page are no longer affecting the samples. Yes, a workaround for this is to parameter lock the sample’s level, but if you have a machine layer on top, this is very annoying.

Additionally, I’ve noticed that if I have parameter locks for velocity on a pattern, the steps that have those locks no longer have a flashing LED indicating a lock exists (velocity is the only parameter locked in this case).

50

Been dealing with a similar thing on 1.60, where track 6 can’t be removed from the main output, but is of lower volume out the main when enabled out the main.

(stayed on 1.60 for FX track muting via track solos – would be curious to know if track solos mute the FX track on 1.70)

1 Like
51

EDIT: I’m only keeping my original post below for context. I’m now understanding the logic behind the Euclidean/regular sequencer relationship, which was nicely explained by @avantronica. Not a bug. However, I’ve decided that the mental overhead required to keep track of how your regular trigs will be affected/rearranged by pressing the Euclidean pulses is just too much for me, esp. live. Lack of visual feedback when you toggle them also messes with my brain. I’ll use Euclidean, but I don’t think I’ll be touching the pulse trigs :laughing:. Also - Damn this thing sounds good. 1.7 ftw! :End EDIT

Possible bug in Euclidean mode (MK1): I’m not entirely sure if this is a bug or intended functionality, but if intended, I don’t understand the use, and it doesn’t seem to be documented @eangman. In Euclidean mode, pressing a lit pulse adds a trig to the regular sequencer track, at the step equal to the number of the pulse. For example, from defaults in euclidean, set 5 pulses with generator 1. The third pulse is on step 8. Press this trig, then turn off euclidean. A trig has now been added to the regular sequencer on step 3. Go back to euclidean. Press the third pulse again (step 8) and turn off euclidean. The trig on step 3 has been removed. Pressing the fourth pulse (step 11) in euclidean will add a trig to step 4 in the regular sequencer, and so on. If you press an unlit step in euclidean, nothing happens to the regular sequencer. What’s the deal here? Bug or feature?

2 Likes
52

The slew rate thing on random LFO is still called start phase

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Have a read at my thoughts on understanding this concept here

You have the ability to p-lock and set trigs and anything you might like to do in ‘regular’ grid mode directly from the Euclidean mode - think of the Euclidean mode as a different way to view the same content.

What you are describing works in reverse, if you have p-locks on the sequence before hand, then those settings or TRCs or whatever will be translated directly to the way the euclidean pattern is heard.

They are seamlessly connected, there’s a 1:1 connect to the pattern ‘beneath’ which i try to describe in that link

54

I’m having some pad sensitivity issues as well. I own a grey MK2 with very little usage on the pads. So it’s not wear and tear. When my pads are set at full velocity, they don’t always trigger when hit. Seems more noticeable since I upgraded to 1.7.0. I’ve never seen such unresponsive pads on such an expensive machine in my life.

1 Like
55

I had this problem with my grey MK2 also – if you haven’t already done the fix from Elektron, I’d contact them about it. If you search for AR pad issues here you’ll find a lot of other people in the same boat, and at least for me, the fix worked (it’s a thin sheet of material that goes between the pads and the switches). Elektron support was quick to send me the necessary part and instructions and it was easy to do myself, even though I bought my AR used and had it for a long while before contacting them about this. I don’t know if 1.70 has introduced further issues with the pads – I haven’t encountered any yet – but it might have made the existing problem worse if you haven’t done the hardware fix yet.

2 Likes
56

I had some issues like this on the A4 upgrade. It was like the Function key was held down for some other keys. I changed the power supply with the RTYM and that seemed to fix it.

The RYTM on the other hand, pads are unresponsive (weren’t great to start with, so maybe i’m forgetting) and it goes into sample rate failure randomly.

All this is caveated on the fact i’m slowly unpacking my studio after 2 years in storage (and why I get PSs mixed up).

57

I actually did that and it made the issue worse, so I removed them again (MK 1).

1 Like
58

Fired up my ARmkII today and discovered that the kit and the patterns I created last night were no longer there. I know for a fact that I saved everything. This is not the first time this has happened, so I can’t say if it’s due to OS 1.7 or not, but thought it worth mentioning in case anyone else has experienced the same thing.

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59

Hello. Today i upgraded and i have a problem with my mk1 version.
When i clear a pattern, and write it from scratch, i get no sound on the tracks.
If i press the PAD i can hear the sound, but if I write it on the sequencer looks that the sequencer doesn’t send information.
Actually if i want to hear my old patterns that i created there is no problem, but if i erase and start to compose, i get not sound. Same if i choose a free slot to start compose, there is no sound if i write on the sequencer.
From the other side, cant find the way to try to Overbridge recognise the machine.
Im crying.

1 Like
60

Have you tried reloading the project? Had similar issue on the DT.

61

MKI here, also can’t record velocity in REC mode.

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62

Unable to play chromatically on SY DUAL VCO, SY CHIP, SY RAW, When Machines are loaded on Pads 2 (SD), 3 (RS), 4 (CP). On Pad 1 (BD) works as intended.