Im aware that there already been similar topics and discussions here, but seems that they did not gave me the answer on the simple question; can AR (slave) be properly synced to Ableton (master)?
I plan to buy Analog Rytm and plan to incorporate it into my live setup which consist of Pulse2, VirusTI, Blofeld and Nord hooked to Ableton, using Motu Ultralite as soundcard and Miditech MIDIface as midi interface. I would like to sync AR’s sequencer to DAW, no plan to create AR’s drum patterns in Ableton.
After almost 6 years of owning Machinedrum I sold it particularly because it was not possible to properly sync it with Ableton. As new generation of Elektron’s is coming with Overbridge I started to believe that the syncing issue is ultimately solved, but is it?
no problem there mate. works flawlessly through usb, or, if needed, through midi
Interesting - never had a problem syncing the MD with Ableton via the TM-1
dont know, it was quite unpredictable, one day was ok, second wasn’t, in one configuration was close to be ok, in second wasnt etc, tried bunch of combinations, and on the end of the day concluded that I cannot rely on it, particularly in the context of live gig.
Overbridge works fine for synchronisation but I would never rely on it for a live gig. I get different kinds of weird behaviour at least once a week…
OverBridge sync is okay, for me. But not great.
It’s subtle, but noticeable. I like having sync as tight as it can be.
For really tight sync I have to dial it in via Ableton’s MIDI Preferences page (MIDI Clock Sync Delay). I test by recording audio (maybe a simple kick and hat pattern) and seeing if it lines up on Ableton’s grid. Zoom in as far as I can go to check waveform against grid. Nudge the Delay until it lines up really really close. So far, best results are always from this sync method.
But I think ultimately it’s just one of those things, it all depends on the individual’s setup/computer/etc. Also, style of music. Some people can notice, some can’t. Some care, some don’t.
Agreed. If I was playing live I’d get some sort of sync box just to make sure. SyncGen, Expert Sleepers USAMO, E-RM Multiclock, Acme-4, etc.
Just yesterday I had chance to try AR. Installed Overbridge, used its usb midi port for sending midi clock from Ableton to AR, and it really works fine. If there is some latency, it is not imperceptible at first. Played/stopped many times, and it is really tight and stable. I hope that the same will be case when using AR VST.
these sync boxes are not cheap, and in the context of my setup it means that Ableton becomes slave, which brings other problems, like disabled Delay compensation
Can only speak for the multiclock. As you run an audio signal from live to the unit Ableton is still the master and delay compensation still works. I have one and it’s rock solid.
When I press record to the ableton, everything is on grid, but i have latency while am playing live with mute triggers while my headphones are in the output jack of the PC. Any solution?
Thanks for reply, but, i’m not sure that I understand you 
I still don’t understand how can I use such devices with Ableton being master?
Meanwhile, I got my AR, and the synchronisation problem is definitely here and it is very serious. I tested it with AR’s midi port (via several devices to AR) and usb port (without Overbridge, just via USB driver). The problem is the fact that the Ableton’s MIDI Clock Sync Delay that has to be entered is not constant within one Ableton’s projects; it changes as I tweak clips and play around in general. So, ok, I understand now that MIDI Clock Sync Delay time is not constant (am I right?) and depends on internal and external plugins and instruments; more external instruments/plugins, the longer delay time (am I right?). But I don’t understand why the delay time is not constant within finished project: just tweaking the clips and start/stop will most probably cause the change of delay time; maybe the activation of particular instrument changes it? There are several more things I have to test, such as Virus TI VST plugin, I suspect it causes described instability, if so, nice, i will use it as external instruments via midi ports, but if not, it looks like it is impossible to synchronize Ableton and AR. I forgot to mention that my ableton project usually has several external instruments connected via midi (Blofeld, Nord Micro, Pulse2) and mentioned Virus via usb and its VST application. So, delay compensation option in Ableton is holding all of them tight and synchronized, except AR
Also, there is certain indication that the problem here may be in AR rather than Ableton or used midi interfaces; i’m using lot of Pulse2s arpegiator patches driven with Ableton’s midi clock via same midi interfaces, and it works fine (with rare dropouts, but it is OK when live performing).
The fact with this test was that I used only empty ableton project with one kick loop, no external instrument, no external sound cards and midi interfaces, just AR usb connected to mac. It obviously was not representative setup to make tests.
Sync box solution is the key.
ERM Multiclock, Acme4 are rock solid sync. with every device you want in your Live setup
thanks for reply. but as I already posted: these sync boxes are far too expensive for this simple function that they do, and more important, in the context of my setup it would mean that Ableton become slave, which brings the problem of disabled Delay compensation option
Nope Ableton still the Master and send audio pulse wich become Clock and Hardware devices sync on this audio pulse. Then you can shift your hardware on the Sync box to get Playback and Recording in Sync. And it’s far more reliable when it comes to your session… Because every time you will add some effects or instruments (VST) in Ableton your delay time change and it can be very boring to find the delay amount each time.
So it’s very comfortable to work for a Live setup with a dedicated sync box from my experience.
That’s why people tend to not introduce a computer in their Live Setup. Because you have to deal with Jitter. You can compensate by finding your timing like in the video i linked. But every time something change in your Ableton session, this timing change and you need to adjust it… that’s why people who make Live use Sync box generally, because it’s more reliable and comfortable to work with you setup and forget it. Also one thing cool is you can independently (by hardware device) stop it and relaunch manually and in Live it’s very nice to be able to do that. (+ Midi shuffle)
You can try this method :
nb : expensive for a simple function … YES but that’s up to you deal with that painfully for month or setup the sync box and forget this sync and jitter subject for ever.
This is maybe subjective. But buying a drummachine for that much of money and recording it sloppy don´t makes much sense. From my experience its absolute essential to buy such syncbox ( I have the E-RM Multiclock) to record his tight drums when you use a daw and want to have everything in sync. I tried really all possibilties , but it always felt somehow ungroovy and unitght (Jitter !) or it lost sync after restarting the daw or doing some new configurations. Especially with Ableton. Overbridge was better (but far not so tight like with the multiclock), but I dont want to use it. It creates too much latency. The E-RM multiclock solved all this problems. Its one of the most important devices in my studio. Absolute essential. Syncing drumachines, Elektrons, avalon bassline and my modular system tight with Ableton that is Master.
For the multiclock you use a special vst in Ableton which sends an audio signal to the unit. This enables the sync between them. Ableton is still master utilising this approach.
When you incorporate hardware and hardwaresequencers into your setup its not a simple function anymore. It´s a essential function. I learned it also the hard way. For me, that was doing everything ITB something like sync was a total normal function and paying 500,- for sync sounded stupid. But after trying every possible solution with much much pain for weeks I gave up and bought the E-RM multiclock, that solved everything.