Analog Heat and master buss processing

Elektron Gear Analog Heat
#100

A friend ov mine just bought the AH mk2 and we have been planning to use it to get more gravity to the lows and to “glue” our mixes together for more solid end result.

However when we briefly ran some of the tracks through it and were trying different dry/wet blends it sounded much darker when the mix was not fully dry or wet. I´m suspecting some kind of phase issue. I´ve been planning to buy one too at some point but this made me consider other alternatives, maybe Culture Vulture if I can afford it since it sounds slightly more interesting to my ear.

Has anyone had similar experiences with the AH mk2?

#101

If it sounds like a phasing issue, it could be related to the filter pan, best to make sure it’s off and not being affected by the LFO or env.
I’ve used mine extensively exactly as you describe and never fully dry/wet and it sounds fine.

3 Likes
#102

Now that you mentioned it, my friend was messing with the filter panning before we tried running the mixes through it. I´m pretty sure the patch was initialised before we did that experiment but cannot be sure. I was really impressed with the different circuits but this seemed like a pretty big problem for what I´m intending to do with it.

1 Like
#103

Yeah, if the filter pan is even slightly engaged it’ll have a pretty big effect on the sound.

Throw a bit of fast LFO at it though…

:exploding_head:

5 Likes
#104

Yeah, audio rate modulation really makes it a wild piece of gear. Paired with other Elektron gear it is almost a no-brainer but the phasing issue made me think of other alternatives. Thanks for pointing out the filter panning. We will try again and make sure everything is set to zero before running stuff through it.

2 Likes
#105

I have this issue, when the dry/wet is 50% , which makes sense, like playing two songs together in sync you get phase cancellation. I’m surprised no one has mentioned this b4. I can’t use w/d mix because the more you add the dry it sounds shit (closer to phase cancellation).
Is my mkI defective?

#106

Can t replicate on my mk1, and would ve noticed years ago if it was the case. As mentioned above, do you have any frequency pan going on (filter page 2)? That s the main phasing source in AH, but not when centered.

2 Likes
#107

I experience the same,but only when the filter is active. Try to deactivate it and listen for any changes. I would like to do not have to deactivate the filter in order to use D/W knob, but hey…this is how filters work…shifting phases due to delays network. Also they are analog filters so I would never expect that they can go linear phase.

1 Like
#108

So I thought “I would have set the filter pan to 0” and I looked and saw that there is very fine adjustment settings and it was set slightly above 0.
Phasing gone now.
Thanks guys, I feel like I have a new toy to play with.

6 Likes
#109

Yeah I ruined some mixes by having a slow lfo on frequency panning…

#111

Sorry for the ultra basic question, but how are you routing the heat for mastering, exactly? Just put all of your tracks in a group then send the group to an audio track containing the Heat plugin? If so how should the Heat’s track be set up? Monitoring set to “in” and output type set to “sends only”? Should I have this track activated (big yellow track button in Ableton) or deactivated?

Sorry but to date I’ve only plugged things in to the Heat directly, and software routing always does my head in :sweat_smile:

#112

It’s a little more nuanced answer and I haven’t used the Heat in Ableton (although I probably should give it a shot). I do all of my mastering in Studio One. I’m mostly using the Heat in a mastering context and for that purpose it’s not something I use on every track. I’m only every giving a track “what it needs” and not using a plugin or piece of hardware (with maybe one exception) just because I have it. Also, I’m almost never using the same process on groups of tracks, rather each one is treated individually. That said, if something is in the context of an EP or album, then I’m certainly thinking that way and shooting for a very similar vibe overall using similar tools.

In terms of using actually the Heat, 98% of the time I’m using the ‘Clean Boost’ setting with maybe just a hint of ‘smiley face’ EQ – if the track benefits from it. I generally don’t use the envelope follower trick, but that’s certainly a cool way of doing it. It’s a matter of playing with the drive (more modestly for me) and wet/dry levels to taste. I’m really very simple with it honestly and just using it like I would a plugin. It either sits in the very beginning of my chain or somewhere in the middle depending on if the track needs some amount of correction. Generally, I like to do any correcting (subtractive EQ, de-essing, etc) to come before I’m enhancing or boosting, however if little needs to be done, then I’ll do the broad stroke enhancing early on.

Hope that helps.

3 Likes
#113

Certainly helps. Thank you!

1 Like
#114

realize this is a crypto bump, but it addresses something I was hoping someone could state explicitly: putting the heat through a stereo 1/4" patch bay (the patchulator pro) and yet the Heat takes balanced, TRS, both input and output in stereo pairs. The patchulator can accept stereo 1/4", balanced, or mono. It can even do CV or expression. It’s all passive.

What kind of y-cable is going to accept two TRS and come out stereo? OR should I just use TS out of the Heat with an insert lead? Or two separate pairs of patch points in/out the patch bay? (it’s only got 10 slots, so that feels like a waste)

A patch bay for my kingdom
#115

I think 2 TRS to TRS ‘summing’ does not work (because you would somehow need to sum the two ‘inverse’ signals on the two rings). This is different from TRS to 2 TRS ‘splitting’ (eg. with a headphone splitter cable). I would use a 2*TS to TRS cable - one signal goes to the tip, and the other one to the ring.

#116

yes, I concur. The only compromise I see in this, @ccr, is that elektron is describing these jacks as balanced mono. It’s likely they take TS, but I gather I’m introducing the potential for ground interference in the chain. And yes, this may still be the best-practices solution, so I’m definitely accepting your input. The part you quoted was a question.

For a pedal board that’s already going through a patch bay, along with power to each device, I just want to eliminate as many points of failure as I can.

Other solutions would be to patch the heat in pairs of i/o. For a tabletop patch bay (the patchulator pro) I’d run out of space quick in my case. But the argument is that for a studio you’d spend less money on additional rack units of patch bay than you would all these y-cables. And you’d gain flexibility on where things were routed.

Or just use Overbridge and keep it out of the patchbay? When it works, it works. Not a fan of the limited buffer size, but for a bounce down, it’s a well-appreciated technology.

Or only apply heat to mono inputs and stages in the mix?

If the heat had true bypass, I’d consider patching it inline to my interface/monitors. That’s another way to do it.

#117

The outputs on Elektron devices are “impedance balanced”, not fully balanced (see manual). There should normally be no problem with connecting the ring part to the ground because, afaik, impedance balanced signals only contain a single ‘hot’ signal line.

Edit: after reading quite a bit about this stuff a while ago, my personal conclusion was: (1) in practice, balanced connections (with balanced outputs and inputs) matters mainly for long cable runs, (2) a balanced input can take both balanced and non-balanced signals, (3) an impedance-balanced output can be connected to both balanced and imbalanced input using either TRS or TS cables, (4) connecting a fully balanced output to an unbalanced input can create issues with shorting the inverted signal.

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#118

Thanks, good to know!
Looks like you were very thorough. Glad to not be compromising, as there tends to be every opportunity for power and signal to cross on a pedal board, as well as for adjacent units to influence one another.

And doesn’t look like I’m at risk of 4)

Might be that it’s simply something I’d introduce at a different junction. That way I can tear away from the studio and travel with the pedal board. Maybe put it into a Terminal v2 (also by boredbrain) or a mixer.

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#119

One of the secret ingredients in the HEAT is the notch filter.
Taking out frequencies is very very important.

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#120

Absolutely this.

1 Like