Analog Four - specific workflow questions

TOTAL · 2022-08-03T04:44:34.170Z

Thanks for your answers. Coming to grips, gradually:)

SAVING
Took today yesterday’s improvised loop. All 4 tracks turned out to play right. Luckily the kit in its basic form was well suited because anything I changed about the sound got lost.
Having done more tests, looks like saving project does not secure the most recent preset selection and settings - you need to save the kit or accept that presets will revert, and THEN save the pattern, and then the project, which I think is what you sugested, too. saving the project but failing to save both kits and presets results in patterns being saved but not kits.

So it looks like good practice to be saving projects when ending sessions as this provides a stage to undo back to.

Assuming this to be correct, I copied the preset to another one and immediately saved the kit under a new name. For some reason the pattern played completely differently but only now I have realised pasting a pattern requires longer pressing the buttons.

MIGRATE BETWEEN PROJECTS
To move one pattern to the project space, the steps would be

copy source pattern
paste to an empty destination pattern slot
save the 4 presets in the repository
select them in destination pattern
save kit
save preset
save project

PERFORMANCE
A great feature is that when you increase the modifying value and browse the available parameters, you hear immediately the effect.

Yes, I am on mk2. Interestingly, the prices of mk1 electrons are reaching the price of mk2s almost. Might be the moment for you to upgrade.

goodmortherlizard · 2022-08-03T12:04:33.259Z

i learned the workflow took a bit of getting used to, but it gets easier and more intuitive. doing some of that annoying preparation work (setting up kits and perf macros, etc.) can go a long way later on.

one trick you might already be using is setting up one kit perf macros and all, then using that as the ‘template’ for future kits i.e. load a pattern & your template kit, then going through the process to ‘save kit’ into a different slot, then make the changes to your sounds that you want. this is helpful because perf macros can be tedious to set up and i generally use at least the same top row for each one (drum filters, delay sends, bass, whatever).

i hope you are enjoying the A4, it’s a great instrument and there’s a lot there.

I will keep an eye out for the mkii in the future. got some expenses weighing me down at the moment (moving and all), but it will happen one day

TOTAL · 2022-08-04T03:26:50.939Z

Indeed, it takes a while to become familiar with how this system works.

Yeah, enjoying a4 hugely. Its synth sounds better than Virus TI.

Here are some new discoveries.

ARP
Turns out arpeggios are recorded as a single step controlled by length parameter as single notes, which is a very neat solution.

SHIFT PATTERN
In manual, shifting triggers around. Cool.

KIK OFF
How to switch off kik - and only kik - without: changing kits, manipulating volume, using knobs, dedicating a channel for kick

Use Fill, set buttons note trigger conditions to fill with overscore, this means that

when you press fill, kicks will not play, and this is midi-level blocking, with a button, accessible.
you are free to use all the empty steps for other sounds and they will not be affected unless you choose to ‘anti-fill’ them, too.

And it’s lockable! Elektron team are gods.

PERFORMANCE TIPS
There are a couple of things there, one being the macros - and the meta macro (I like the idea BTW), the other how to remember in which octave ‘solo’ parts were done. I think I will be changing sound octaves with oscillator to make the parts playable without jumping octaves in-between notes and for the mini-keyboard to always be in the ‘middle’ octave.

MACROS
Performance macros - is there a syx file circulating on elektronauts?

EXPLORATIONS AND SAVING WORKFLOW
This is still unclear. Imagine you have a pattern and kit saved. As you tweak the notes and sounds, you come up with a worthy new scene.
So to keep both the old and the new snapshot,

save kit as a new one
copy & paste pattern to a new one.
save the new pattern
get back to the old one

and here… unfortunately, the old one is linked with the new kit, and to get back to the assignment of the old kit you need to reload it here.

Any simpler way?

TOTAL · 2022-08-04T03:48:55.923Z

Interesting but no explanation along the way and the music seems uninspiring for me.

Youtuber Ihor does some great techno tutorials.

pselodux · 2022-08-04T05:38:51.732Z

TOTAL:

the music seems uninspiring for me

woah I think you may be the first person ever with this opinion

TOTAL · 2022-08-04T09:32:01.588Z

really? I found that music a distraction and preferred to just read relevant part in the manual.

qlamerand · 2022-08-04T09:38:33.192Z

I just pictured a concert with a live read of the user manual
(it’s a bit of a troll, I can imagine the need to be focus on the feature to learn without music)

TOTAL · 2022-08-04T09:54:57.943Z

Or all the patrons in festival live act in the audience reading pdfs off their phone screens
Yeah, this is subjective, and might even attract overreaction as above.

There was this acclaimed Philharmonia soloist busking incognito in a city center. Largely overlooked, attracted little attention.

When he played as himself in concert, people would pay big sums.

pselodux · 2022-08-04T10:19:50.515Z

TOTAL:

I found that music a distraction and preferred to just read relevant part in the manual

Perhaps if you’re simply viewing it for tips, but I personally think he’s the single best A4 user out there, a really great example of what can be done with the machine if you know what you’re doing.

TOTAL · 2022-08-04T10:30:16.673Z

Okay, if so, maybe it might take one more look to appreciate that. Thanks.

But yes, in this thread I am looking for rather specific tips on the workflow. It is still unclear how to do sonic explorations in the middle of a project.

TLDR, here is the part

"
This is still unclear. Imagine you have a pattern and kit saved. As you tweak the notes and sounds, you come up with a worthy new scene.
So to keep both the old and the new snapshot,

save kit as a new one
copy & paste pattern to a new one.
save the new pattern
get back to the old one

and here… unfortunately, the old one is linked with the new kit, and to get back to the assignment of the old kit you need to reload it here.
"

[as I look again, this chap is really making some great music MÃ¸rkeredd (Analog Four) - YouTube]

goodmortherlizard · 2022-08-04T19:40:13.076Z

TOTAL:

Use Fill, set buttons note trigger conditions to fill with overscore, this means that

when you press fill, kicks will not play, and this is midi-level blocking, with a button, accessible.

you are free to use all the empty steps for other sounds and they will not be affected unless you choose to ‘anti-fill’ them, too.

very clever. i totally forgot about that as an option. usually i am playing guitar so i don’t do much with the fill settings.

TOTAL:

PERFORMANCE TIPS
There are a couple of things there, one being the macros - and the meta macro (I like the idea BTW), the other how to remember in which octave ‘solo’ parts were done. I think I will be changing sound octaves with oscillator to make the parts playable without jumping octaves in-between notes and for the mini-keyboard to always be in the ‘middle’ octave.

this is an interesting idea, that i hope plays out well. remember that if you use func + whatever parameter encoder it will jump some values. this might help go up octaves on the fly without any dissonance in between…unless thats what youre going for.

TOTAL:

Any simpler way?

i don’t think so if i understand what you’re saying. some A4 workflow stuff can be a bit tedious at times.

TOTAL · 2022-08-04T22:35:04.078Z

Sound explorations
I think the simpler way is to do the same in a different order. “Normally”, I am finding that only on the next day can I tell with certainty that no sounds or changes were lost - (especially tricky when it is about a wrong set of sounds, kind “what is that??”) but it appears that the right order is this

Imagine you have a pattern and kit saved. As you tweak the notes and sounds, you come up with a worthy new scene.
So to keep both the old and the new snapshot,

first, copy & paste pattern to a new one.
and only now, save kit as a new one
save the new pattern

When you now get back to the old one, it still plays changed, but you can revert to the last saved kit, which is the right one. In even if you don’t, saving the project should just restore saved kit automatically - not verified yet.

Cool It’s good to talk this through, thanks.

The device is easy to grasp - contrary to Octatrack, I heard. One very useful thing, you can play one tone, and in time meantime change the track and modify filter of another track. Ideally, there would be hold option with switching to another track not sending note release. But I have seen this work miracles, probably as a side effect, on one system some five years ago.

If you use a4 with overbridge, does it work stutterless? I am getting all sorts of issues making it not even possible to record improvisations to an ableton track. I am on windows.

suitcasecontroll · 2022-08-05T11:35:24.076Z

TOTAL:

How to make it possible to quickly mute just kick? Keeping a dedicated track is expensive. (Un)Muting all 4 kicks quickly in the sequencer is a way, although will keep you busy enough not to do anything else. And if there are more pages, this becomes too much of a task

Try to programm all drumsounds except the kick as soundlocks. I think the amp volume then will only affect the current track sound, i.e. your kick.

reeloy · 2022-08-05T16:08:00.024Z

…yup, quite some do’s and don’ts on the a4…

biggest elephant in the analog room is…whenever u crafted a sound u like…save it!!!
patterns remain one thing, sound kits the other…

to harvest all it’s magic u must dive deep into it’s performance macro options…it’s endless but totally worth it…

dunno the latest firmware…but i think, a4 by now, should also feature the fill option…
that might be the easiest way to mute certain trigs while running…

Unifono · 2022-08-05T18:23:00.949Z

reeloy:

but i think, a4 by now, should also feature the fill option…

it does

TOTAL · 2022-08-06T02:03:47.336Z

A good try, and you can come up with interesting unusual effects, not only with drums. However, there are leakages of user tweaking into the locks.
Thanks, keep 'em coming. Looks like there are numcerous options. ideally, performance knobs could gate midi. This would keep pristine adsr of all the kicks that get through. MIDI gating rather than volume muting.

TOTAL · 2022-08-06T02:13:47.559Z

SOUNDS (KITS) VS PATTERNS, PERFORMANCE VS PATTERNS
Yes, sounds, or kits more specifically are handled separately from patterns but have performance settings integrated. This one is quite unusual, meaning that if your track evolves in a series of patterns & each has a dedicated kit saved - as it should as a matter of good practice. - patterns done later will tend to have more performance knobs settings configured, or have later iterations simply.

There are further implications.
If you have some good “performance” ideas later on, applicable to earlier stages, each of the earlier patterns that would benefit from these settings would require replicating all that stuff. No, you don’t even want to think about it. Let’s consider it a creative-boosting limitation

Anyway, turning a performance knob all the way right makes it possible to audition and weigh changes at random and pick the best findings.

TOTAL · 2022-08-06T02:15:29.537Z

Yes, and it can even be used for muting kicks, although its potential for animating intensity on the fly would be used for trivia.

Eaves · 2022-08-06T06:41:01.597Z

TOTAL:

It is still unclear how to do sonic explorations in the middle of a project.

One way to deconstruct sounds in a project is to audition a sound with the keyboard, then reset one parameter page (PAGE+CLEAR) then listen for the differences. You can flip back and forth by reloading the kit (NO+KIT, or parameter page PAGE+NO). This way you can compare the pages with their init values, then slowly dial in the values yourself to get a better understanding og exactly what they’re doing, one page at a time.

TOTAL:

If you have some good “performance” ideas later on, applicable to earlier stages, each of the earlier patterns that would benefit from these settings would require replicating all that stuff.

Yeah, replicating stuff like this is tedious, and is the reason I feel the A4 benefits more from planning ahead than the digi-boxes. To make this easier for myself, I often just stick to one kit and one or two patterns until I have a pretty much finished track, and only then make B-sections on new patterns and a new copy of the same kit. This also helps me prevent accidentally ruining patterns by forgetting to switch kits. Not ideal, but it’s the simplest way I know of.

Muting kicks with the FILL button works great. One disadvantage of this is that holding it down and turning knobs with the same hand is awkward. If you can dedicate an entire track to just play a kick, you can use a performance macro assigned to Amp volume or filter cutoff or Amp decay to mute the kick. What I like about this method is that your hand is free once you’ve muted the kicks, and you can perform using both hands, then reload the kit to unmute the kicks. Alternatively you could just mute the track normally, but then it won’t unmute when reloading the kit.

Not sure if you know already, but when you’re on the performance page, the trigs 1-6 will mute and unmute tracks 1-4 and the fx and CV tracks, respectively. One handed! Usually you have to press FUNC+TRACK to mute stuff, which unfortunately is a two-handed button combo.

Aside from that, I think you’ve listed out pretty much all the tricks I use and more =D

TOTAL · 2022-08-06T10:27:05.082Z

Yes, I can see how the device determines the workflow (and also the genres). Also, sticking to kit adds to a sense of continuity.

Toggle is better for muting indeed, and fill has its other applications. That would mean ‘shiftless’ midi kik mute at the cost of a track. However, for the genres a4 seems predestined, isolating kick is not a priority

Following guys’ advice above, I will have a look at how you develop songs out of curiosity because I was looking for more of a techno-in-a-box device.