#24

Analog FM sounds totally different to digital FM, even if you have enough oscillators and modulators. I have a large modular and whilst it is fun to make complex analog FM sounds, they do not get anywhere near the type of sounds any cheap digital FM synth can make, largely because of the purity and stability of the sine waves, and their interactions, the complexity of the envelopes, feedback, restructuring the oscillator relationships to change algorithm, and about 100 other factors.

And the FM on the A4 does not even approach what even a basic modular can achieve, although that is not to say it isn’t useful, but a Digitone it ain’t. On the flip side though the Digitone won’t be able to make all of the sounds an A4 can make.

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#25

To me the Digitone (ordered one) sounds like I had hoped the A4 MKii (cancelled order) would sound. From the sample tracks/patterns I’ve heard it can produce lovely analogue style pad sounds. I’ve got a vintage analogue synth and eurorack so FM is an exciting new addition for me and I never knew it could sound this good. Or “FM at it’s core” as Cenk keeps explaining.

#26

sure you can with the cv output. how else should you influence external gear :smiley: . but still the lfo on the a4 is just not fast enough and full of aliasing. still like the fm drum sounds.

#27

Don’t get an a4 for fm… it was an afterthought on the a4. You can get some 2op sounds out of it but like many have said, that Ifo does not come close to a true oscillator. The bell-ish sounds are interesting in their own way, not sure one could even reproduce the lfo shortcomings with a real vco source :slight_smile:

I’m surprised they did not improve the lfo for fm on the mkii, seems like a wasted opportunity. As far as fm the digitone sounds interesting if you’re into 4op sounds.

#28

That’s the catch for me not ever owning a FM synth putting subtractive synth aside how much of a sound palette can be created with FM syntheses compared to the A4 understanding the A4 is analog. The sounds I’ve heard online are amazing with a interesting character but there are some sounds that are not my style but then that’s with every synth. It will be interesting to see when videos are posted to hear how much character the DN really has.

#29

I’ve owned an Analog 4 for some years now, before and after the FM was added. Having listened to a few Digitone demos now, I’d say you’ll not get “real FM” out of the Analog 4. The two sound totally different to me. As someone who often uses the FM features of the Analog 4 I’d say if you want FM or want what the Digitone sounds like, get the Digitone.

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#30

I am looking forward to owning both and using A4 for drums again. My answer is BOTH.
From what I have seen of the Digitone, like the A4, it is capable of a very wide spectrum of sounds.

My favorite Elektron pairings have always been 1 digital + 1 analog. The tracks just sound so good and full.
AR + MM
MD + A4

A4 + DN? Yes, please.

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#31

On A4, one can either use the pitch tracking LFO on OSC (preferably triangle) or on the filter frequency with high resonance (e.g. multimode filter on peak).
I got some pretty bell sounds out of the second, but the problem is that LFO speed is not continuous so you easily miss sweet spots.
Still, between filter freq + lfo depth + lfo speed there is room for interesting FM sounds.

Far from covering DN perimeter of course, but I love a good FM cello on A4, with a bit of drive on first filter it can sounds really nice.

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#32

to be honest i won’t let go the a4 so easily, but i won’t say it’s easy or instant gratification to work with , i don’t really like the core oscillators they are noisy and harsh sounding. i’m definitly bying the digitone and see who stay & who’s leaving (maybe the two will stay :slight_smile:) . but i will say listen carefully to the a4 and the digitone, if you can go to a shop and spend at least 30 minutes with each. you could be happy with a Virtual analog & a digitone. real analogue is so expensive !

#33

on the cv track you have 2 lfo that you can send to external cv

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#34

The analog fm on the A4 is not comparable to (I guess) the phase modulation on the digitone.
Sounds very different, and in my experience the A4 fm is quite difficult to find nice sounding sweet spots. It’s more for experimental sounds. The digitone is certainly capable of very experimental sounds too, but “nice” sounding stuff should be achievable more easily.

Sidenote: I’m a fan of the Am in the A4, which is described as Ring modulation in the manual. You can get a lot of bell type or metallic sounds with it, for which fm synths are also known for. Not the same thing, but a nice tonal diversity and different to the more typical subtractive analog sounds in the A4

#35

mmm…crossed wires here I think
Thought we were talking about applying LFO fm to an external oscillator being used as an internal oscillator I.e. feeding an external osc into A4 and replacing an internal osc with this, and then applying pitch tracked LFO fm to this oscillator directly inside the A4 itself.
My distant memory was that the pitch tracked lfo fm couldn’t be applied to this external osc as the pitch of the incoming external oscillator can’t be determined by the A4. Like I said long time ago I had an A4 so may be able to.
Not talking at all of CV. Well aware of the CV possibilities of sending A4 CV to the outside world.
Anyway off topic anyway. Move on shall we

#36

Just realised how silly the topic of this thread is.
How can you compare an A4 with a Digitone for FM?
They are in completely different worlds as far as FM goes.
If you want FM don’t bother with an A4

3 Likes
#37

With the A4 you get analog FM which is very different from the digital created Yamahaisch FM which btw. is not real FM either but PM => Phase Modulation.

#38

Well on A4 it’s only half analog, and maybe half again, as it’s a DCO not VCO being modulated by a digital LFO at quite low audio rates :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#39

The only advantage of A4 fm over Digitone is I presume the Digitone doesn’t do filter fm? Can you fm the filter in Digitone by one or more of its operators?

#40

It’s difficult to tell.
The manual doesn’t mention the pitch tracking LFO speed multiplier for the Digitone.
Then again, it isn’t mentioned in the latest A41/2/AK manuals either.
It’s almost a hidden feature, in this regard.

#41

Why use pitch tracked LFO again for this?
This is all digital, should in theory be able to use an operator (oscillator) as a FM source.
Maybe something Elektron can add if not already possible.
Filter FM would bring even more to the table.

#42

Because only waveforms are sources on the LFO page, just like on the A4.
A tracking multiplier LFO is how filter FM works on the A4, would seem to be the most pragmatic way to implement filter FM on the DN, as there is no place on the filter page 1 for modulation source.

Filter Page 2, however, is a different story… :slight_smile:

1 Like
#43

Simon of Elektron on the “FM” of Analog Four vs. Yamaha DX FM.

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Best combo, with AF or DN?