AKAI Force

The Lounge Other Gear
#469

another day, another session brought to a halt by a crash.

I really like the way you can write on this but … yeh

Managed to open up some MPC live projects in force but seq data was oddly missing? Maybe was because the project files were made in 2.4, dunno

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#470

I just grabbed a Force for a really good price. Man, this device is almost perfect, but they removed the pad auditioning/lazy chopping features from the sample editing workflow that exists on the MPC Live & X. It’s also missing the auto sampler feature for keygroups. I really hope they add these to the Force. If not, I will probably stick with my MPC Live.

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#471

It has auto sampler see page 197 of the manual.

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#472

That’s a relief. Thanks!

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#473

No problem not sure what you mean by auditioning/lazy chopping but you can do all kinds of things in the sample edit section.

#474

He’s talking about the missing PAD tab. Its a known omission. Hopefully will be adressed at some point.

EDIT: Seems like Dan just elaborated on this @ GS:

“force was designed to be screen / pad independent. meaning you can be in note mote on the pads, sequence mode, where ever, while having whatever else you want, clip view, matrix view whatever all at the same time. this mean the pads and the screens dont talk to each other. Its not really in the design language of Force to have the screen dictate what the pads are doing, which is how MPC works. frankly, if you need the pads for chopping, MPC might be a better fit.”

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#475

Makes sense to me, 2 different machines for different needs.

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#476

I will be doing my best to rally the troops to get them to change their minds. Early stability issues aside, this is the only thing keeping it from being almost perfect in my book. It’s going to be a excellent partner for my OT.

#477

I’m new to any sort of digital recording (last time I recorded anything was 20 years ago, on a Fostex 4-track), and am trying to decide between Live and Force. I’m just one guy with some guitars, amps, a Moog Sub37 and a load of effect pedals, and I’m doing everything myself. Mainly I’m wondering what I’d really be gaining by spending 3 hundo more on a Force. Not that it matters, but I like the looks of the Live much better, and I really wish the Force had MPC drum pads. I’m too uneducated on how these things work to be able to deduce which workflow would work better for me. I plan on doing a lot of sampled sounds to create my own drum kits, and was originally considering a digitakt or octatrack, but I think my best bet may just be one of these to do it all.

#478

I think you’ve answered your own question really. I mean, if you want MPC pads and like the aesthetic of the Live better, then I’d say that’s your horse. The MPC is the more mature product at this point anyway, and though there are some differences in overall functionality, you’re basically getting the same software/firmware with a lot of crossover; so it really comes down to which interface best serves your projected workflow.

For the record, I’m a performer (a guitar player primarily), and I recently chose the Live over the Force, almost entirely for its pads and form-factor; but to be fair, at least as far as functionality is concerned, either would have worked for what I need to accomplish (mostly live beats and occasional clip launching).

Cheers!

*Edit: I just watched a YouTube review of the Force, and according to the reviewer, it currently only supports 4/4 time signatures. That would be a deal-breaker for me.

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#479

Changing time sig on the Live is a bit of pita… just a heads up

#480

Hi! Got the force in germany since day 1. Been on muffs and sequencer.de but as an elektronaut i feel more confident to expose this device with you boiz&girlz.

Heres is my endless examination: (after two weeks)

Appearance:

  • Compared to my rytm the force is huge.
    Still lighter than computer, interface and push of course, but the dimensions are a little unhandy. i just realized it doesn’t fit in to any of my gigbags and tourcases.
  • Pads feel smooth, i like the size, fingerdrumming is like on the rytm, no big swaggy mpc pads for sure
  • Buttons have a satisfying click
  • touchscreen is ok. responsive and bright. Can be dimmed in the settings.

Purpose:
In my case it replaces the Octatrack (in conjunction with bomebox, QuNexus Keyboard & Midi Fighter Twister) or laptop, RME UCX and touchable pro on ipad at other venues.
I have several hundrets of Clips and Stems i made during the years and also sequence my modular.(mainly melodic stuff) Rytm plays along.

Workflow:
Was a bit damped at first but within some sessions and after some little learning tasks my worklflow got really quick now. As pointed out somewhere here it feels more like a limited DAW than propably the Live (don’t own one) or the OT. Beeing an Ableton user for over a decade now the ability to work with clips and manipulate each drum Pad, Audio Track , Synthvoice individual with some eq, comps and characteristic FX really fits my approach in producing, alltho i bought it mainly for live gigs.

:elot: vs force:
There is a lot i will miss and before reading the manual i found myself trying to transfer the elektron workflow, which is, from that perspective, fantastically logic! :alien:
for example: Without thinking i was holding a note on a pad and turning some parameters on the screen - with no luck. no P-Locks, no direct mangling of Audio and the lack of scenes are the biggest disadvantage compared to the OT imo.
Other than that you can really do everything with this machine but you have to be on the right screen page (or program the right macros on an a knob page) to reach the functions.

my reasons to switch:

  • I just could’t get along with patterns/banks on the octatrack in a live situation
  • transitions and whole sets cost a lot of time to prepare, had a licence for octaedit but wasn’t deep in
  • sampling, resampling and basic stuff always some shift functions ahead
  • the feeling that i will never truly own the octatrack or use it the way it could be used

FX:

  • The AIR fx sound ok, basic stuff is well covered. Just like native fx in any daw
  • No Max4Live style or experimantal fx but i can live with that. (non-linear reverb might go there)
  • Reverb is much better than OT but don’t expect eventide or valhalla. Let’s say it’s useful. :slight_smile:

Midi:
On the midi side there is a lot they have to work on.

  • No midimultimode so far, just the “autochannel” if you will.
    When you record midi from a keyboard and select another track while recording your notes do not reach their targeted clip.
  • there is also no feature to map ext. controllers to specific parameters like in the live atm.
  • the arp and chord settings can’t be edited deeply by now.
  • Arpeggiator is just for live recording on the pads.
    this sucks, as I am used to record chords and apply the arpeggiator later on, which you CAN’T do here.
    A physical workaround is to play the midi out and record it on a new midi channel with the desired arp or retrigger setting to another clip. (you can use a single 3,5mm stereo patch cable to do this, instead of two adapters and a midi cable)
  • Not sure this will ever be changed.

Plugins:

  • Internal synths are cool. No arturia sound but i had nice results so far. as pointed out from someone here, the synth engines are really basic. they worked well for some lush pads or fmish chords. For ruff analogue style basslines and such a keygroup with raw wave cycles might be the better way.
  • Could be voodoo but there is always a crystalic “digital” touch you will hear, at least when you mainly work with ext. synths and hardware. But same applies for a LOT of vst synths, just too dry and clean in my ears.

Sampling:
Never had akai gear before but sampling, chopping and autosampling is pretty fast forward! Keygroups out of modular or Juno 106 or Soma Lyra-8. It makes you wanna sample the shit out of your gear! Recorded a lot of loops and stuff thru allenheath console and two tape delays. Really inspiring even though it’s all possible in Ableton the force wants me to feed it…

Warping:

  • Once the tempo is detected correctly my preproduced audioclips sound high quality at all bpm.
  • detuning tho sounds very muddy and oldschool (in a bad way). Really disappointing when you’re used to abletons warp algorithms
  • there is a small glitchy sound at the beginning at some clips even when the loop points are exactly trimmed. someone made accurate measurings and pointed this out at https://getsatisfaction.com/akai_professional/. It seems the first ms of audio are played two times and phase… they are on it.

sound quality:

  • if you turn of that damn maximizer on each track the force can sound very transparent.
  • With right amount of fx and compresession it gets really punchy.
  • dynamic range and headroom depending on your gainstages
  • like in any digital processing, levels above 0dBFS can lead to aliasing and unwanted distortion
  • using a comp as a limiter here and there is recommended to avoid artefacts after heavy effects for example

conclusion:
:thup:

  • All in all it’s a dope thing! could be exactly what me and others were waiting for
  • rapid learning curve, easy shortcuts
  • sampling is fun, keygroups lead to new sounddesign ideas
  • sources out laptop and whacky usb connections
  • always great overview on everything

:thdw:

  • still got that “betatesters” feeling that live users might have had
  • sadly no disc streaming, RAM is filled up fast…
  • hope they come with new update quickly and fix some issues
  • physical dimensions maybe too big, not suited for the chill and beat making on a couch.
  • only two audio inputs

That’s it for now! Feel free to ask. Thanks

Btw, i made an Open Cheat Sheet with shortcuts and stuff.
Everyone can edit and add functions to the list! No rules by now, i will clean it one day.

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#481

Hmm… Thanks for the heads-up, Strangelov3.

I’ve only had my MPC for just over a week now. I’ve been at it steady, every day, but I haven’t yet endeavored to set a different time signature. I did notice, day one, that there was no straight-forward way to do that from the main page of the sequence; however, I’ve been prepping my live templates (all in 4/4 thus far) under the assumption that I can simply make (and save) separate projects, each with a different default time signature, as needed.

I don’t suppose someone might confirm that for me?

Cheers!

#482

Yep. Templates set up in the software are one of 2 workarounds. The other is more ridiculous.

From the main screen
Sequence > pencil icon
Insert Bars
Select number of bars and time sig
Sequence > pencil icon
Delete unwanted bars

#483

Akai does have some strange ideas. It’s truly bewildering at times.

Don’t get me wrong, I realize I’m the odd man out here, being that I build all my beats, live onstage, on-the-fly, often required to improvise; but seriously, even if I was a push-play performer, prepping all my beats ahead of time, you’d think it would still make sense to have the time signature right on the main page beside BPM and Bar Count, like every other drum machine and DAW on the planet.

Anyway, thanks Strangelov3! It seems much frustration is ahead of me. I’ve got several hundred sounds to sample and chop yet, and a couple dozen programs to make, with just a few short weeks till I hit the road… It didn’t even occur to me that it would be a hassle just to set time signatures. Argh!

I don’t even have time to explore this right now. When you say “in the software”, do you mean that I can’t even set up different templates in standalone mode?

Cheers!

#484

Thanks for the cheat sheet @mindscript !

I am also learning the Akai curve coming from Elektron machines. I have to say that I love having tracks, clips and the performance knobs laid out in front of me. Makes it pretty easy to throw down a performance. The crossfader is pretty cool too and I am sure Akai will have a few things up their sleeve for additional functions with future firmware updates.

All in all a fun machine and a great tool for jamming and performing live with!

#485

Sorry I was incorrect in suggesting that you “need” the software to set time sig and save as a template. It’s just more straight forward as opposed to the method in standalone.

Software is necessary to set pads to send chromatic note numbers sigh

#486

Thanks again, Strangelov3!

That’s a relief anyway. Don’t get me wrong, a pain in the arse to be sure; but as long as I can change the time signature somehow on the MPC itself, and save various templates, that works for my purposes.

Seriously though, Akai, how is this not on the main page next to BPM and Bar Count?

I knew there would be a face-palm moment or two when I bought this box (smirk).

Cheers!

#487

Just curious about the force, and maybe someone who has used can fill me on this:

Can I sequence midi events without having to sequence note values? I mean it would be rare to only sequencer random midi events but I am curious

#488

create random MIDI events? that feature is onboard the MPC 2.4, so I’m guessing it should also be on the force. I’ll take a peek.

Yes, its still there on the force as well.

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