AK vs A4 : the sound is VERY different

glitched · 2016-12-03T16:54:42.232Z

To summarize:

There are slight differences between the A4 and AK, coming either from the actual, physical sound-generating circuits, calibration, or both.
Additionally, being analog instruments, minute variance in tolerance, heat or other factors may influence the sound, slightly.
Whatever the real or imagined difference, the only substantive issue is whether you prefer keys, desktop space, or a particular workflow.
If you have an A4, there’s no reason to feel you’re “missing out” on anything, with regards to sound-quality or more bass or whatever (and vice versa).

AdamJay · 2017-05-14T15:41:21.975Z

glitched:

If you have an A4, there’s no reason to feel you’re “missing out” on anything, with regards to sound-quality or more bass or whatever (and vice versa).

^ This.

(Sorry to rehash this, but for just today I have an A4 and AK right next to each other. Both with the same settings so I am doing some A/B tests with my ears.)

Doing some A/Bing of the same kick patch and yes A4 and AK sound different. AK is clearer in the highs on that patch, ironically. More of a finished sound. A4 is woolier.

On 2nd kick patch test, the differences are more apparent. AK circuits have more of a scooped (lows are higher, and treble higher) frequency response. A4 is less so (more mid forward).

On fat, moog-ish bass sounds, it’s a bit different since those sounds don’t have the high frequency attack content that good kicks do. So the bass bump is more noticeable on AK, for sure. A4 sounds more mid forward, again, with good mid presence for bass lines. They are objectively different - but I think neither is objectively better. A lot of times, in production settings, forward mids (A4) are a very desirable thing in an analog synth.

More to the point, these comparisons are with the exact same parameters on each machine.
When moving beyond the differences, we must also examine capabilities. I am finding that with some quick use of high resonance HPF or even using the peaking filter, I am able to get that same bass bump out of the A4.
And inversely, I can get more forward mids out of the AK when using the peaking filter.

While these two synths don’t sound exactly the same, they are equally capable.

LyingDalai · 2017-05-14T16:01:09.773Z

Have you made a calibration on both units before your tests, Adam ?

AdamJay · 2017-05-14T17:03:35.397Z

But of course, as it is the first thing I do with a new (used) unit (AK), and the last thing I do when letting a unit go, before packing (A4)

LyingDalai · 2017-05-14T17:04:38.285Z

Forgive my doubts

Open_Mike · 2017-05-14T17:45:06.944Z

I don’t expect you to do this but I’m curious if the results turn out exactly the same after calibrating each unit again…

sezare56 · 2017-05-14T19:17:29.802Z

Is it just a post eq thing ?
Do they sound the same with eq correction ?
If I had both, I’d use a white noise and good multiband eq to correct and compare again after.

AdamJay · 2017-05-14T20:28:37.870Z

AdamJay:

More to the point, these comparisons are with the exact same parameters on each machine.
When moving beyond the differences, we must also examine capabilities. I am finding that with some quick use of high resonance HPF or even using the peaking filter, I am able to get that same bass bump out of the A4.
And inversely, I can get more forward mids out of the AK when using the peaking filter.

^A little louder for the people in the back

umonox · 2017-05-14T20:33:59.629Z

Naboo:

[quote=“” anselmi""]
I also found the sound louder, so I attached an oscilloscope and found that the AK got way hotter oscillators than the A4

this is similar to what I heard after the A4 1.1 update. Everything sounded pushed up slightly.
[/quote]

not everyone reads patch notes, eh??!! F1 Resonance Boost was added in one of those updates Elektron turned that off for existing Patches and turned it on for new patches. They even warned you in the Patch Notes to let it turned off for existing patches as they might become too loud in the end.

umonox · 2017-05-14T20:37:09.318Z

AdamJay:

AdamJay:

More to the point, these comparisons are with the exact same parameters on each machine.
When moving beyond the differences, we must also examine capabilities. I am finding that with some quick use of high resonance HPF or even using the peaking filter, I am able to get that same bass bump out of the A4.
And inversely, I can get more forward mids out of the AK when using the peaking filter.

^A little louder for the people in the back

thats literally the same workflow on every subtractive synth which has a multi-mode filter imho. need bass? turn the HPF or Peak Filter down, boost the Resonance, turn Filter Keytrack on and adjust to taste. I design EVERY bass sound that way - for ages already! Eliminates the need for the obvious EQ-Works after recording.

Naboo · 2017-05-14T21:50:11.097Z

No, not relating to reso boost.

AdamJay · 2017-05-17T01:41:14.175Z

umonox:

thats literally the same workflow on every subtractive synth which has a multi-mode filter imho. need bass? turn the HPF or Peak Filter down, boost the Resonance, turn Filter Keytrack on and adjust to taste. I design EVERY bass sound that way - for ages already! Eliminates the need for the obvious EQ-Works after recording.

IT’s why I am grateful that A4/AK voices each have both a solid LPF and a highly flexible multi-mode filter.
Filter 2 is the jam!

psyclone001 · 2017-05-17T02:46:40.353Z

Yeah but would be nice if you had a switch to also bypass the filter as you can with the Heat. Even with filters wide open they still color the sound too much imo.
Would be good to have the option to hear and use the direct raw ‘unfiltered’ A4 / AK oscillators at times, and use external filters etc.

lintfresh · 2017-05-17T04:20:35.135Z

There’s no way to know that they’re coloring the sound if you can’t turn them off.

turbiville · 2017-05-17T04:22:32.549Z

didnt they say in the AK videos or launch that they did change the overall low end of the AK to make it more punchy? I swear I remember them saying they did mess with the oscillators to add weight to the sound.

Ryan · 2017-05-17T05:01:25.628Z

I recall them saying that as well. Not in regards to the Oscs though, but architecture maybe?

psyclone001 · 2017-05-17T05:07:12.975Z

Yep that’s why I said imo.
Comparing to other synths it sounds it. Listen to a raw saw wave with filters wide open and comparing to other synths the very top end still seems to be shaved off a little indicated subtle filtering still occurring. Doesn’t quite have the raw bite of other synths, and also a contributing factor imo why some people may say the A4 has a ‘dull’ sound.
Anyway my opinion only so who cares

andrewl · 2017-05-17T05:08:25.664Z

FWIW, I recently got an A4 after a year of owning an AK. Both sound great, but I don’t pick up on the allegedly meatier low end in the AK based on A/B testing.

As someone said, each individual analogue synth unit will have its quirks.

basehead617 · 2017-05-17T05:16:18.481Z

Why is there any argument going on when the ACTUAL OFFICIAL Elektron FAQ answer pasted by tr909 above says they are different and that the AK has bass differences, and the Simon M soundcloud recordings confirm exactly that?

Cosmic · 2017-05-17T05:39:22.752Z

I have both they sound the same to me. The Simon examples on soundcloud also sound the same to me