Advice on how to get rid of a MIDI loop

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

I have a very specific setup where i’m running into a midi loop. Not sure anyone here has the time to try to wrap their heads around this one, but it doesn’t hurt to try :wink: I have simply come to an dead end. But feel irritated because it feels like i’m only one step from solving it. So here is the layout (all graphical credit goes to MS Paint):

Layout Midi_edit
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The problem in my case is the BCR2000. I really want it to be able to receive the current status values from the Ocatrack. But if I enable Soft Thru on my JD-XA I will get a MIDI loop since the JD-XA receives notes and CC from both the Octatrack and MPC 1000 (not at the same time though) and then sends them back to the Octatrack and MPC.

How can I solve it so that the BCR2000 gets the information from the Octatrack without the risk of a midi loop? Is there a way round this or would it be best if I just forgot about the BCR2000 to represent the current values on its leds? It would all be solved if it only had two Midi in. But that is not the case sadly.

EDIT: I have an MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus that can filter information if needed!

#2

Maybe you could do with a 4-way iConnectivity MIDI hub. Can be programmed to merge, route and filter stuff whichever way you want.

#3

It might be more likely that you will get a solution if you denote which is out, thru and in on the devices where it isn’t obvious, off the top of my head can you not set the JD to local off (assuming you are using it as master keys) and connect it differently, and the other option is a midi filter.

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#4

Thanks! I updated the picture to clarify a little bit.

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#5

I have Local set to off on my JD. I have tried to figure out where a midi filter would be in place, but blame my lack of smartness on why I can’t figure out where it would need to be placed to solve the loop. I know that I need to filter out all except the midi CCs, but I want the JD to receive the midi notes, and to send notes out…

#6

The loops are … JD-XA --> A OT/MPC --> JD-XA, including the BCR possibly. This set-up seems to ask for trouble, if not all parameters are set-up and controlled well.

The OT can reroute incoming midi channels to midi-channels of it’s sending outs. The same goes for a MPC. You have to control midi setups like “midi-monitoring” in the MPC, the “local on/off” of the JD-XA, the internal set-up of the channels of the OT, the OT auto-channel, and similar on the MPC. In your setup there are many ways a midi message could travel in circles and even change it’s channel on the way.

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#7

Thanks for your input. So far I have managed to eliminate all loops by setting: Local Off on the JD-XA. The OT is controlled with Autochannel 11 and the MPC 1000 with Active receive channel set to 12. So I’m simply switching between Channel 11 and 12 on my JD-XA to control the OT and MPC independently. The Thru from the OT to the MPC gets rid of the interference that could have been otherwise. The OT Midi Out is only for Sync basically since the MPC 1000 (without JSOS2XL) has no midi CC implementation, aswell as sending the OTs midi channels through the MPC (Sync received from Midi In 1 and soft thru activated) to the Volca, TX81Z and KP3 when needed. So the only loop I get is when I set the soft thru “on” on the JD-Xa for obvious reasons. So the only thing that is missing from the chain is that the BCR2000 receives the current status of the Octatracks CC values. But I can’t seem to find a solution that does not include soft thru via the JD-XA. I have thought of making the MPC 1000 the master since it has 2x MIDI inputs and 2 MIDI Outputs.

Ugh… My head is running loops…

#8

You could also consider to use the second MIDI-out of the MPC to kill loops … direct connection from MPC-MIDI-out-2 to JD-XA.

I connect my master keyboards directly to an MPC (5k here) or an OT and go from there. The routing options of MPC and OT help to prevent loops.

#9

Do you guys think this could be a viable solution? The only thing that could go wrong is that the OT receives a duplicate of its own CC values… Could that cause any disturbances on the OT?

Layout Midi_edit 2
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#10

I think I’d be inclined to use a midi patchbay, you can pick them up used for about 100, and they allow you to easily route and in some cases (depending on which one you buy) filter and merge midi data. I use a DACs midi patchbay like this one, which I like because it is very basic and uses regular patch cords to reconfigure, but you can get more sophisticated ones that can have preset scenes at the touch of a button like the Akai or Roland ones from the 90’s.

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#11

echoing darenager
Ditch the Thru, the filter, and thru box for a midi router.
I got one of these (non usb) on ebay for $40.

Using the “Live Keyboards” preset will make your midi routing a breeze.
If you shelled out a little more money you could get a newer model with USB and programmable midi filtering.

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#12

Damn it… I thought I was finally finished buying more gear. But yeah seem like good investment for sure. Is the none USB version hard or even possible to program without the serial adapter?

#13

I bought one because there was no need to program it.
The "Live Keyboards preset does exactly what I needed it to do, and would work for you as well.
Basically you’d do something like this.
JDXA OUT > MOTU IN 1
MOTU OUT 1 > JDXA IN
OT OUT > MOTU IN 2
MOTU OUT 2 > OT IN
MPC OUT > MOTU IN 3
MOTU OUT 3 > MPC IN
and so on, until everything is hooked up.

The Live Keyboards setting let everything talk to each other easily as long as you set all you’re channels etc on each device properly.
The Live Keyboard setting does not allow midi to loopback per port.
In other words, the JDXA going IN to port 1 goes OUT to all other ports except 1.
Same for all 8 ports.
Super easy.

So in the end you could do things like, send clock from OT to everything, but use the KP3 to control the OT.
Send midi tracks from the OT to various things, from the MPC to various things, and control them all with the BCR
The JDXA could play anything you set the channel too.

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#14

Alright! Yeah, that sounds like a good way to get out of this midi mess :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
Thanks @darenager and @JuanSOLO for your well needed advice. Back to eating noodles yet another month :smile:

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#15

I’m telling ya, got one for $40 bucks.
Still have it, and dont use it anymore.
Much tighter set up these days.
Anyways, if you’re looking for one on the cheap, just PM me and we’ll see what we can work out.

#16

Ah nice! Looks like you’re located in the US. Feels like the shipping and import taxes will make it less of a bargain. I will check if I find something more close by and get back to you if I have no luck…

#17

I thought that might be the case, nevertheless, I bet you find something.