Advice for electronic drum set + AR =?

previewlounge · 2014-01-24T07:16:48.000Z

hi all, a drummer i know is interested in playing an electronic drum set, and i am hoping to find out if the AR would pair well with such a device.

if so, would there be any kit in particular? currently i am thinking the Yamaha dtx430k model, but it is nearly double the price of (seemingly) comparable kits. Well, on the surface the kits seem very similar. But the actual playability and responsive feel of a kit is something else.

those cyber silicone cymbals are pretty amazing tho…

dtx430k_1_med.jpg533×533 33.8 KB

anyway i am far too easily sold by aesthetics alone, and there are not many locally playable. if there are any kits i should research please advice…

edit:a friend mentioned early Ddrum gear is nice.

nirun · 2014-01-24T23:49:52.000Z

octatrack would make more sense with live recording looping and sample playback and creation capability.

i would argue that an AR would replace the need for “vdrums” if you want to play drums with sticks the OT and the drums you posted above would work great but tell your friend it will take longer to learn than regular hardware looping machines

cykranosh · 2014-01-25T01:48:26.000Z

The mid implementation is not known yet. So, there is no way to tell what electronic drum kit would be useful for playing the internal voices of the AR with drums.

I suspect it will be kinda weird, where 4 voices will be on 1 channel and the other 4 voices will be on the next channel (this is kinda how the MachineDrum is). So, you would probably need a midi brain that can handle sending midi notes from pads to different channels.

It is also not currently known how the AR will respond to velocity. If there is a way to change what it effects, etc…

So, until a manual is released, you won’t know if the AR will work for what you want. If it’s not, you might look into a Nord Drum 2.

edit: Also, if you are planning on playing the internal sounds of the unit triggered from your drums, then the Octatrack is definitely NOT what you want. There are much better samplers, purpose-built for that sort of thing. The OT is about direct manipulation, not external triggering.

previewlounge · 2014-01-25T01:55:35.000Z

good question, and no, no internal sounds at all.
just a looking for a wicked midi drumkit to connect via midi to something with decent sounds …

methinks the AR is the unit of the moment. something to save up for. im incredibly excited about it to the point of running about in circles.

ah yes, the separate channel issue … that is what kinda got in the way a few months ago… i tried connecting a VDrum kit (early model, like something from the Blake’s 7 sci fi series) which would only transmit on Midi channel 10 … to the Machinedrum … haha, well that was a learning experience. only Four drums available for one channel, i was amazed the VDrums wouldn’t allow adjustment of Midi channel per drum. Very early model.

although OT is a lovely machine, i greatly enjoy it for creating and performing [in the living room] … hope to perform live with it one day soon. but not for use with a midi drumkit.

for an electronic midi drum set, i really like the idea of the AR… hope the midi config is going to be okay.

to be sure, some midi drumkits arrive with sounds as banks already available for the kit’s brain to access, but the real value and magic in a midi drumkit is in all the nuances and power of a truly talented drummer playing a genre they love.

to then connect an elektron device to that kind of energy could be phenomenal.
requires sample prepping though, in conjunction with other factors such as the tuning of other instruments playing alongside the drummer.

for example, i play a five string purple ESP bass with a custom tuning C-F-C-F-F … the sample preps need to be working with the sweet spots of the bass and fender amp, etc.

edit: a buddy tells me he has heard good things about early Ddrum triggers, the red and black ones… second hand. Able to be fitted to acoustic drums.

also found an interesting looking Ddrum kit, looked amazing.

nirun · 2014-01-25T02:14:41.000Z

whoops, totally misunderstood your first question. In that case yes it’s likely that the AR will be able to receive midi information from external sources like the A4 by assigning the voices to the corresponding midi channels on the vdrums. I can’t see Elektron not including the same functionality as the A4 in this case.

I imagine assigning channels 1-12 (or whatever you’ve assigned for each pad on your vdrum set) for each respective percussion sound will be straight forward.

previewlounge · 2014-01-25T02:53:24.000Z

yup, i think it is going to be a winner.

currently my fave choice for a midi drum set is a Ddrum entire kit.

ddrum.jpg640×640 50.6 KB

but that is based on the limited information i have.

would also like to try a more recent VDrum kit.

and really it wouldn’t be my choice, rather it would be the drummer’s option as he is the one who plays the instrument.

keen to hear if anyone has tried any kits at all… maybe some kits transfer after touch, or contain a flam option… different ways of responding to the drum sticks that no other midi drum kit does … i should ask on a drumming forum really come to think of it.

as for midi connectivity, yes, let’s hope it is possible.

if being triggered from an external source, Machinedrum naturally maps an incoming midi note’s Velocity to the slot sound’s volume.

perhaps the AR will expand on that kind of mapping, with options to enhance responsiveness.

kirlian · 2014-01-25T02:57:53.000Z

if playing/triggering electronic drum sounds is all your friend is after, then the nord drum 2 should definitely be on the list. obviously it’s only a module, but it sounds awesome.

previewlounge · 2014-01-25T03:02:09.000Z

nice, would like to hear one of those through a multiband compressor
[edit: after also being pre-amped by a UA stereo 610 tube preamp]

as for playing/triggering … yes, one-shots for the win! /edit: i do not gel with the new forum’s emoticons haha /edit.

ah but really it would be great to get a combination that really gels, somehow resulting in more than the sum of the parts.

maybe horizontal dragging of the drumstick over a pad could send a CC message … maybe the AR could pick up on that and do a filter adjustment.

trying to inject not only naturalness but also total inspiration into the situation for the drummer.

kirlian · 2014-01-25T03:41:20.000Z

i play with a guy that uses a multi pad that does more than just velocity and rim shots. i’ll check it out. most of the drummers i play with use a combination of real kit and a multi pad to control the brain.

for folks that like electronic music, nor drum is the bomb…

Accent · 2014-01-25T07:25:08.000Z

I’ve got an on and off project with a drummer who runs cheap piezo mics into a cheap Simmmons drum brain, sending midi to my MD, triggering different machines. I would imagine that most kits would work, although they may be subpar for playability.

previewlounge · 2014-01-27T08:17:00.000Z

""kirlian"":

i play with a guy that uses a multi pad that does more than just velocity and rim shots. i’ll check it out. most of the drummers i play with use a combination of real kit and a multi pad to control the brain.

for folks that like electronic music, nor drum is the bomb…

oh yesss! clavia nord lead II makes extremely enjoyable drums also.

nice to hear of piezo mics and simmons drum brain combo … pretty much the nuts and bolts of a workable MD connection for a real drummer… awesome.

the_dreammer · 2014-01-28T10:32:47.000Z

I got a dtx2.0 in my other studio… bought it donkeyyears ago…

does send midi to multiple midichannels (setup per pad basis) on whatever note you want (on a per pad basis)
has an extremely large amount of drumsounds (so much, i never scrolled from beginning to end of list…)

totally kick-ass…

the only downside is, its far away from my elektron-gear …
I am sure it would be fun to connect it to my machinedrum…

but I bet it be a lot less fun with octatrack… unless well maybe if I
could tie the hihat-pedal-pressure-CC to the CC# of the fader.
and make some pads to a pickup machine…

anyways, read the manual of drumkit how flexible the routing is
and you be fine…

little note though: Before I had the drumkit… I had drumpads from yamaha
came with little foot controllers and shit… A whole lot smaller then a drumkit
(50*50cm) versus the complete drumkit which is more 2,5m wide and 1.2 meters deep…
it practically takes up a whole wall in my studio.

previewlounge · 2014-01-29T13:19:48.000Z

dtx 2.0 kits look amazing!

yes the trigger option is economical space factor…

edit: ah just remembered that one-shot trig mode is only available from the OT’s own trig keys … that’s cool. doesn’t mean it isn’t possible to load one-shots to the 8 tracks of the OT.

but yes i think the AR would be a mighty addition to a drummer’s sonic adventures.

previewlounge · 2014-02-04T18:37:48.000Z

just went the super el cheapo option …

rather than buying anything, we are going with Machinedrum, and using a korg padKontrol that was packed away in a box… i found a transformer to make it work without a computer’s usb … (very responsive and the flam/roll buttons combined with the x-y pad make it a potentially awesome option).

connecting the padKontrol to the Machinedrum, i realised that the MD would accept the appropriate note name/number from any one of the four Midi channels it is set to, not just one channel for certain drums.

there are two assignable rotaries on the padKontrol … shall try to make them adjust filter of hihat, or pitch of skin drum.

so, that is a welcome surprise, not needing to buy … anything at all! haha… one day, i think the DDrum kit is the way to go.

but for now, there is going to be one optional purchase, and that is an uber cheap 'DP-2" roland damper/momentary pedal. works as an extremely inexpensive midi kick drum pedal… connects to the padKontrol’s “pedal” input, goes through via midi lead to the Machinedrum. this is going to be fun…

first lesson of the first jam the other night using this scenario … regular drummer’s seats are totally unergonomic for playing machinedrum.

the_dreammer · 2014-02-04T19:21:33.000Z

Sounds you got a winner-solution… Enjoy

previewlounge · 2014-02-05T03:14:07.000Z

awesome, cheers Dreammer. waiting for the DP-2 to arrive in the mail, gonna be awesome… i hope… it is quite new territory for me, to be setting up the Machinedrum for someone else to play.

the_dreammer · 2014-02-05T14:56:29.000Z

""previewlounge"":

awesome, cheers Dreammer. waiting for the DP-2 to arrive in the mail, gonna be awesome… i hope… it is quite new territory for me, to be setting up the Machinedrum for someone else to play.

I am sure you be fine… he might play a difrent rythm then you would have programmed… but a good kick, is a good kick.
a good drummer will put it in the right place
I bet if he didnt like the drums you could program, you never would have started thinking about linking up a drumkit.

I gave up on letting people make their own sounds in my studio… it never really turned into a tasty jam…
versus letting them play with all my custom drumkits and synthbleeps and preloaded samples…
that works like a charm … thats why I think as long as your drummer is tight and you give m freaky nice drums all be good…

Enjoy tinkering
p.s something inside me says thats you cant have an “empty sequencer” on the machinedrum… so if you get weird shit. make an empty pattern and just plock something on a track u dont use… (this is a gut feeling mate, not absolute knowledge)

previewlounge · 2014-02-06T08:24:16.000Z

yes the drummer is great. real nice guy and doesn’t mind using other people’s drumkits at gigs, even though he is like a mindblowingly awesome drummer… so that quality certainly helped him crossover onto the hybrid padKontrol->Machinedrum.

next jam we will change the chair, and hopefully include the DP-2 if it arrives in the next ten days.

hmm interesting call about the empty sequencer … yes, maybe even have the sequencer playing… without any notes being on tracks or maybe just one track, p-locked to be silent. it could influence phase of drums, or LFO ‘free’ mode, or any number of things, on a very subtle level. then again, it could make no appreciable difference. worthwhile trying though, because at high volumes and a clean signal path, an immense amount of subtlety may be conveyed with sound parameter tweaks.