On the Phi you can send either L, R, or L+R summed to either of the two busses. Given they mentioned the Phi patches would be compatible I’m guessing something similar but with another set of L/R options.
The EM’s patch design is not opaque at all. All the EM lacks is user-friendliness and that’s not even intentional. The EM is a complex multi-synthesis engine, which gives you access to signal paths including and beyond the commonly used subtractive signal flow. To make things appear worse, the engine is exposed using a matrix interface with a WXYZ formula system and it can only be accessed when you connect your instrument to a computer.
Despite the fact that musicians do not seem to gel well with matrix interfaces and even less with formulas (who’s to blame us?), the EM’s matrix layout is amazingly compact and orderly in visualising relationships and whole networks; that is far more orderly than any modulars with their multi-colour spaghetti patch cables. If you want to start with sound design in the EM, the utilities category of presets provides a lot of simple and expressive building blocks.
The HS is ready for MPE and that’s about it. You have to do most of the MPE XY(Z) programming yourself in the mod matrix (matrices be damned 
) because the factory presets neither showcase MPE-Y nor MPE-X.
You can also share patches between EM devices - though the Continuum is, for now, the only one capable of splits and layering. Because the controller completely changes each time, the same patch won’t feel or even sound quite the same.
It is literally the same experience once you start connecting various MPE controllers to the HS. When I connected my Linnstrument to the HS, it started sounding a lot more like my Continuumini. So a huge portion of what you can hear from a synth may be due to the controller.
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opaque —( definition ) not transparent
I’m a hardware / software engineer, with a degree in mathematics, and some incredibly gnarly project successes. I am the guy they give the hard stuff to, or i take for myself as manager. So i guess i am allowed to disagree with you on the definition of “opaque”.
Plus this is a comparison. Pick the synths that you would prefer to be making patches with from these five.
Making and modifying Hydrasynth patches, is easy, and actually fun ( for me ), so again we can disagree, but i think i got that part right too, with setting up interesting MPE patches that would work with the Osmose as a controller.
It’s quite compact and organized.
The problem is there’s only so many pieces of information that can be presented all at once to quickly grasp what’s going on.
The EM editor has you drinking directly from the firehose which is useful at times but mostly overwhelming and leads to confusion.
The HS has you presented with just enough information such that you can digest it in one go and you can reach other pages with digestible pieces of information. 8 items on the screen is right in the 7 plus or minus 2 rule for how much information to present.
Sound Demos:
Hydrasynth: Tons of sound demos including almost hour long ones by Daniel Fisher
Osmose & Continuum: There were relatively few demos of presets until recently but with the excitement of people demoing the Osmose this now has multiple long preset demos to get an idea of the sound engine’s capabilities.
Anyma Omega: Very few but to be fair it’s not fully released yet as it only reached the production prototype. It’s somewhat comparable to what the Osmose had as sound design demos going into the first ones rolling out.
Iridium: Almost nothing, this has been out for almost a couple years but still not much in the way of demos.
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The definition of opacity has been perfectly clear to me. Feel free to disagree with me about its applicability in this context.
By the way, for me, modifying existing presets on the HSD was actually a fun experience, except for mod matrix and macro assignments. Despite the great UI, I sold it after 6 months of intensive usage.
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While this is largely off topic, the rule of seven is about what you can keep in your working memory. What we’ve learned from decades of UI work and testing around e.g. programming defects is that the more of a given problem you can have visible to the user at once, the more likely they are to create correct solutions to it — which is to say, to have a correct mental model of it. Now, having the whole problem visible is necessary, not sufficient. Many compact representations of problems (such as, say, a matrix of formulas) require much more time to become fluent in than less compact representations where the translation between symbols and meaning or effect is more clear. This is even more true when visual representations are an option.
In summary, presenting the firehouse is likely to be better, if the information is well-ordered, such that the relationships are clear, and the representation of the individual elements is easy to parse. Translating from a synthesis structure into a visual is a genuinely hard vdesign problem, and the more flexible the system, the harder it is. A relatively conventional fixed architecture helps, but in reality, most of what it often does is shove all the complexity into the mod matrix.
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The links here below will provide you with plenty of material on how the EM and its presets sound:
- Haken Audio official website: Sound Engine — Haken Audio (check out the links in the last third of the page)
- Haken Audio YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/@HakenAudio/
- EM Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/@eaganmatrixprogramming/
- Christophe Duquesne’s channel: https://www.youtube.com/@anckorage/
- Joshua Madoff’s miniman page: https://www.youtube.com/@JOSHMADOFF/
- Joshua Madoff’s other page: https://www.youtube.com/@JoshuaMadoff
- ContinuuCon: https://www.youtube.com/@ContinuuCon/
- Rob Schwimmer’s tips du jour: https://www.youtube.com/@playingthehakencontinuumwi2789/
- Rob Schwimmer’s music channel: https://www.youtube.com/@5SunkenHeights5
- and there are many more such examples …
I have left out the usual synthfluencers. Osmose’s presets may sound slightly different for the reasons I’ve mentioned in my previous posts.
I suggest to start with this masterful demonstration of the mini: https://youtu.be/ZEmE101qMFI
…beyond boutique…all truu niche market products…
while eycandee meets earcandee…
i’m off that hook…finallee…no real world scenarios, i could imagine myself actually using/playing one of these…
the real instrument factor to me, end of all days, is always the keybed…
osmose and haken go the xtra expression mile here, sure, but a truu weighted, mechanical keybed in some naked doepfer master 88 keyboard/piano controler, u get to feel and universally used to once and for all, no matter what u play/adress with it, no matter what genre or mission u got to accomplish, is always the better invested musical money…
add some proper pedal controls and some ordinary ribbon controller for further pitchdrifs to it and all kinds of sound/synthesis concepts are just urs only…and nothing but a real instrument beyond all trends right in ur hands…
the very last hardware synth with keys i really clicked with, was the digitone keys with it’s sturdy oldschool pitch and modwheel, decent individual keysplitzones and it’s proper polyaftertouch meets solid external controler duties…
It was bound to happen. Waldorf has released a new Quantum MK2, with a 61 key Fatar poly-aftertouch keybed, and 16 voices.
Waldorf brought back Axel Hartmann to freshen up the design, and among other things he improved the touch-screen, and gave it a new finish on the case … it looks nice. They also increased the internal memory storage all the way up to 59GB of internal storage !
I added the new Quantum to the list at the top of this thread.
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Thomann shows a price of $4222 for the Mk2, Sweetwater shows $4799 for what seems to be the Mk1. I hope this means that international pricing is evening out and that we won’t have to pay eleventy million dollars for one in the US. 
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I wonder why Nonlinear Lab’s C15 has not made this list yet. It seems very expressive and advanced. No MPE but two large ribbons and plenty of modulation …
I’m also a bit puzzled by the thread title: advanced keyboard synths. To me, it looks more like a selection of expressive keyboard synths, currently or soon marketed, though Continuum’s isomorphic surface is hardly even a keyboard. MPE and polyAT enable more expressivity and are those two features really enough to be expressive? In addition, should we really ignore the past, e.g Korg Prophecy/Z1, Yamaha CS80/VP/VL, Roland V-Synth, etc. ? What is it really that makes a synth advanced and/or expressive?
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It’s just a title, a handle, a three word summary. The word ‘advanced’ here is intended as a adjective for ‘keyboard’ not ‘synth’. The first post explains things. The idea was to compare the existing options for synthesizers you can buy new today ( pre-order ), with an advanced keyboard. It was prompted by the change in the marketplace for this sort of synth in the past couple years.
It’s an arbitrary decision. If you want to talk about other things that’s OK. Or you can start another thread more specific to your interests, which is a good option too. As far as it goes this thread has been good, and has filled a purpose, at least as far as i am concerned, so it is what it is.
This is fun
A little from column A and a little from column B.
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A keybed controller version of Osmose could physically build in the trigger mode controls that Expressive E has added to their Noisy 2 software.
These physical controls actually belong on all advanced keyboard synths and controllers. This is potentially a large advancement for gestural keyboard expression. I can see these controls being applied separately to both sides in a split, as well as being built in to stored patches.
For detail on these trigger mode controls see this video that i have queued.
Another good innovation from Expressive E !
There is no reason for EE not to do it already in the current Osmose’s external (aka controller) mode. Maybe they are already thinking about it as we write.
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That would be great.
Closest that i know of for this is the still in development – Aodyo Anyma Omega Keys. It’s only about 50% of what you want but still more than the alternatives.
It’s the Fatar poly-aftertouch keybed, and only sixteen continuous encoders below a color display, but it does have the poly touch 2-D ( plus smooch pressure ) ribbon ( that they will pioneer on the Loom ), plus a four part multimbral modular synth engine sort of like the Nord G2. It will also act as a controller. MIDI 2.0 isn’t part of the initial release, but they have committed to a ‘maybe someday’. It also has other interfaces built in, like breath control, and CV.
That usually gets called “OEMing”.
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