Acoustic Instruments along with Setup

Jukka · 2023-06-20T16:12:36.013Z

porphyry:

Do many of you utilize any kind of acoustic instruments along with your synth gear setups?

You can flip that question around – Do you use synths along with your non-synth based ensembles ?

Same thing, just a different perspective.

porphyry · 2023-06-20T16:50:46.139Z

Hah! True, and I think that does say something interesting about how you think of the music you make how you would consider that.

I guess I’m sort of in the middle there, trying to blend the two sides.

shigginpit · 2023-06-20T17:17:18.235Z

I’ve seen people make nice use of piezo mics along with a room mic to have a dry and wet recording of the same take. What style of music are you hoping to incorporate the cello into? I’m sure it depends on your overall vision, but I can think of instances where it would be perfectly integrated and also ones where it would be not so perfect. I’d like to hear what you have in mind if you have an example, or especially if you find a way to do it yourself.

porphyry · 2023-06-20T17:39:03.603Z

The piezo mic is an interesting idea, right now I just have more of a room mic that I would use to record.

I’m not entirely sure what I would call the music I make but maybe more like moodier synthwave for lack of a better term. I tend to lean more into atmospheric sounds and harmonies.

Most likely, I will use the DN to create essentially a backing track to then play along with, at least to start.

shigginpit · 2023-06-20T17:46:49.489Z

Well let me ask this: with or without drums? I think that in itself will tell a lot about what you’re envisioning. Either way I’m sure with something atmospheric it would be very cool. I’d be interested to hear something with a bit more post processing, like a track with reversed cello. Not exclusively, but just as a departure from what one might expect to hear.

porphyry · 2023-06-20T17:54:42.742Z

Probably predominantly with drums but not exclusively so. I want to do a little more stuff closer to ambient/drone as well which I have played with some of that on DN but haven’t made anything substantial yet. I need to do more playing around with post processing options as well since I’m sure there are a lot of cool creative applications there.

I would ideally like to be able to play whatever I am recording live at the end of the day too.

a link to a recent song of mine for some context if it helps:

shigginpit · 2023-06-20T18:00:38.546Z

As opposed to the emotive cello one often thinks of in this kind of context, for a track like this I’d prefer to hear it as a component of the rhythm. I know that may not be what you want to hear, but when I hear a track like this and thinking in the context of an addative, rather than a lead instrument providing a solo or delivering a speech such as it were, I’d be interested to hear it driving the track. Almost to supplement if not replace the drums - like to make the drums an afterthought.

Maybe not for all applications, but when listening to this that’s the feeling I get. Maybe a bit more lively than one would expect, catching the sharp sound of the bowstrike, maybe it’s called ricochet bowing? I’m not sure if that’s the correct term for what I want to say. But if it were a person breathing, they would be taking short shallow rhythmic breaths.

porphyry · 2023-06-20T18:04:40.610Z

That’s an interesting idea and I like where your head is at here. I am very much open and overall looking to explore options of how to most make something interesting. I do think the cello is extremely versatile in terms of the roles it can effectively play in an ensemble so from one song to another I’d probably try to take as much advantage of it’s different possibilities as I can.

The past several years, not have others to play with, I’ve been pretty limited to solo cello works which are great, but it would be great to play some other parts in an ensemble.

shigginpit · 2023-06-20T18:25:01.055Z

Post your results, very interested in the outcome. Cello is extremely versatile in a sonic context. I had something in mind that I heard cello used in which I was going to show you, but I can’t find it amidst all the reaction videos and spam that’s coming up on youtube, if I come up with a link I’ll post it.

porphyry · 2023-06-20T18:57:42.385Z

Great, I’ll be interested to hear it if you can.

Thanks for the ideas and feedback here, I appreciate you taking the time. I’ll definitely continue to post things as I get stuff worked out.

sleepside · 2023-06-20T19:02:43.200Z

A little drive/distortion I think also helps acoustic instruments blend in with electronic

rostislav · 2023-06-20T19:58:00.307Z

Hi, I am in the same boat with you, except I’m using an acoustic archtop guitar with live electronics. Unfortunately i have just started this project, so I can’t provide you with lots of information or any sound examples. But here is my set up and some food for thought.

Amplification: mic DPA 4099 with a cello mount. Expensive, but 100 % worth it. I hate piezo pick ups. I don’t want to play loud music or music with live drums, so I am not afraid of feedback issues. I also tend to not use any sequencers or as little as possible. Only small room reverb on guitar + granular drones and pads + FM/wavetable for additional textures + simple bass.

Electronics: The mic goes to the MOTU M2 interface and Macbook Air M2 with Ableton Intro. Probably will ditch the laptop for an old and trusty Ipad pro 2017 with AUM and 2 synths (ID 700 and Tardigrain) i like more than many hardware synths I’ve had previously. I also have MSW-810, that i use for bass (super simple 1 oscillator synth). This is an analog synth, but in my humble opinion, fat analog synths or some crazy big VA synths may take to much sonic space. I’m going to use it with Keith McMillen 12 Step, but am not not sure yet.

Artists to check out:
Zoë Keating - cellist, live looping in Ableton, controls everything regarding electronics with a midi controller (Keith McMillen Soft Step).
Francesca Guccione - violin player, uses almost every modern Moog synth at the same time (TBH overkill for what she does with them) and laptop.

Those two ladies are exceptional because they bring electronics into acoustic world and not vise versa, which is somewhat easier, in my opinion.

porphyry · 2023-06-20T20:15:31.826Z

I do think a mic captures more of the overall sounds that a string instrument makes which makes it a really valuable way to record one, though i dont have much experience with piezo pickups so I can’t personally compare.

Your setup sounds cool, do you have any stuff you’ve made that you could share so I could hear it?

I do really like Zoe Keating actually, I’ll have to check out Francesca Guccione that does sound really interesting.

brucegill · 2023-06-20T20:37:25.495Z

rostislav:

mic DPA 4099 with a cello mount. Expensive, but 100 % worth it

This!

JohntheSavage · 2023-06-20T20:54:43.432Z

porphyry:

Do many of you utilize any kind of acoustic instruments along with your synth gear setups?

I’ve been wanting to start incorporating my cello into my songs but haven’t yet and just wanted to see if this is something other people have experience with.

Most of my career has involved the melding of acoustic and electronic instruments, both onstage and in the studio. This includes touring, for many years, with a reputable cellist.

Indeed, there are countless exciting and viable ways to do so. To which end, sharing the details of my own setup would likely just steer you astray.

However, if there’s one piece of advice that I might give you, it’s to resign yourself, right now, to the suggestion of monitoring in-ear. What you can do with acoustic instruments, when you don’t have to worry about resonant frequencies and feedback, is literally boundless.

Cheers!

P.S. I didn’t read the rest of this thread, so apologies if I’ve reiterated what anyone else said…

Mistercharlie · 2023-06-20T21:06:40.795Z

porphyry:

Francesca Guccione

I find it hard to bring my guitar into an existing electronic arrangement, but the other way around is ok. I also like to sample the guitar (acoustic or electric), and then chop that up a bit. That way, I get their timbres and expression, but I don’t end up trapped in my habitual scales/chord progressions etc.

Sometimes I will learn the chopped-sample piece and re-record that, which is fun.

shigginpit · 2023-06-20T21:09:39.083Z

I just somehow made guitar riffs out of a synth and a distortion pedal. true story.

my poor guitar just looked at me, angrily. from inside it’s case. under a pile of shit.

I felt it’s gaze though, like the telltale heart under the floorboard. creepy.

porphyry · 2023-06-20T21:19:06.056Z

What synth/pedal? That sounds pretty sick

rostislav · 2023-06-20T21:22:38.467Z

At the moment I am too busy with survival (live in the country that, for obvious reasons, everyone hates), so do not expect from me any excellent examples in the near future. I also promised myself that I will make a Youtube channel this year… Probably won’t happen. But i will try to record something improvisational this or the next week just to show my view on this topic. I also have the Dreadbox Erebus V3. Excellent for drones and post-apocalyptic soundscapes. Will use this also und post everything here.

Also check out Sarah Belle Reid und her approach to combine a trumpet and the VCV rack or a modular. If you are into super experimental stuff.

shigginpit · 2023-06-20T21:24:30.114Z

waldorf rocket with a triangle big muff clone through el capistan and a fathom reverb. I had a weird sequence on the keystep sequencer and started using the looper thing and it turned into something else entirely. mostly by setting the lfo somewhere good then working the envelope parameter to get a back and forth rhythmic to sustained sound. it’s hard to go wrong with a big muff. unless you want a clean signal chain and no noise artifacts. in that case it is then very easy to go wrong.

after the fact though, I found the most guitar like riffs and chopped them up as samples and it turned into some kind of metal song, I don’t know I’m still not entirely sure what happened. it was big and loud, that much I can verify.