so i joined your cake, sitting in front of a brand new octatrack…
took a while…was out of stock everywhere…
ordered it a while ago, for a new tour concept starting this autumn…
so now i’m missing some time in peace to get in touch wirh it, step by step…
instead i’m in a hurry to get a live reel straight to the point…
so forgive me, if i’m asking stupid questions…
as you all might experienced, the octatrack is quite a deep dive, even if you’re not a guy you got to tell…rtfm!
so please let me drop here some fairly blue eyed questions i got on the run…
first of all…
…1…ok, we’re talking all fixed tempo grid here…fine for a four to the floor set…
but if it’s all about spitting out complete halfplaybacks, how can i nail down diffrent tempi upfront for each individual track without adjusting on the fly…?
coming from ableton, of course, i’m looking for the option to jump to different tempi fixed scenes…not talking ot scenes here…but like ableton secenes…
so bank 1 got a static machine loaded up with halfplayback one at 90 bpm…
next track…next bank…same static machine slot…but now with halfplayback two at 112 bpm…
that’s one thing…
and 2…how do you guys , now we’re talking four to the floor, find the right balance between complete mixes and fooling around with flex snippits…
do you split your ready made mixes into stems to get full benefit out of ot’s options to tweak anything inside out at any time…
or do just drop the complete mix and do some add on fuzzing…?
how about dealing with brickwall limited mixes…?
four to the floor is the death valley of the loudness war these days…so, if you split up into stems, how do you catch up end of the night…?
thanx and sorry…i’m just lost yet…don’t know where to start the bounce concept of preparing the right audiopoolcontent…
This is a great topic and asks questions I’ve also been asking myself; ‘what’s the best way to export stems from Ableton to add into the Octatrack’.
I get a bit bamboozled with tail end of parts where the sounds fade away - how to recreate that in Octa which feels a lot more loop based (this is me coming from the Ableton Arrange view - not session).
Re: tempo, that’s not possible in pattern playback mode. You can do it in Arranger mode though.
…but what if need to drop song after song in some kind of traditional concert situation…?
no need and no chance for any pattern arranger!
just stepping through a setlist one by one with applause breaks inbetween…
ok, i could make it a simple tape deck, leaving all time stretch sync option aside…
but of course i’d love to jam a bit here and there with additional parts and need the option to react on the audience…even if it’s all fixed arrangements in first place, i need to step out if i want to…
not to mention the jam potential with looping action via the pickup machines…
but once i did so, i need to finish the song…and whenever, then i need to hit the go button for the next one…dropping in with complete different tempo…can’t alter that value inbetween…
same with the four to the floor project…even if i’m ending up as the long distance runner never stoppin the stream…i can’t watch the arranger doin’ it’s job…
in the studio i will mangle for sure some hot lines with the ot…but in first place it’s here to perform live without this “i might have controlers but i still read my mails on stage”-computer charme…
in fact i bought another computer to get rid of my computers…
considering you are in a hurry and want to play in a club full of beatport-controlled DJs, i suggest beating the DJs with their own weapons, the idea is to use the OT as a multideck in one machine.
format: bounce your full mixdowns. bounce them mastered/limited to death. make them sound good. loud but good. make sure they are all on the grid in the daw already, it will save you having to practice tempo nudging (not hard…) first. put each track/song in a static slot on track 1 and 5. track 1 goes out the mains, track 5 goes out the cues.
tempo: the fastest way is to decide on one tempo only, and bounce all your stuff at that tempo. if you want anything other than manual tempo changes, you will have to go into the song/arrangement section of the manual. remember that if you stray from your original tempo, you will quickly lose audio quality, unless you use some tricks… see? this is endless. use one tempo value for now.
performance: push away the DJs from the mixer. connect your mains to channel 1, your cues to channel 2. start using the OT like two decks in one machine. offer the DJs some drugs to stay away from the booth. now trig a piece of music on track 1, let it play until you can mix in what’s playing on track 5 using the crossfader. mix back. mix forth. mix. enjoy the night.
credibility: don’t worry about this, unless you see another elektron user in the room. if you see one, resample your tracks to a flex on track 2 and 6, or below, depending on your FX chains, and start messing.
PS. since you are already set up to mix your channels on the DJ mixer, you can use the OTs xfader for other nice things.
I think you can still perform in the Arranger mode - I think you can get it to loop infinitely on a pattern (or sequence of patterns) and whilst it’s doing that you can build those patterns up & down with trigs, effects and scenes before moving on to the next portion in the Arranger which would be your next track with a new tempo.
Just to clarify - are you wanting to seamless move between songs and have the tempo jump? Would that sound good? Say going from 100bpm to 130bpm?
Why not use a natural pause for the audience to clap and stuff and switch the tempo in the background?
Or have your pattern move onto a ‘transition’ pattern which has a one shot trig that is set to not timestretch - this could be a breakdown. Whilst that’s playing, change the tempo and then bring in the next pattern to kick things back in?
thanks for the advice…instinctively i also thought, ok track five, track one…the decks…
two felx tracks underneath each…one pickup, one master…
but i’m not a dj…never was…recording and performing artist.
and yeah, after ten years of complete absence, i’ll do some club music again…
and i gonna stay with one tempo and halftimed…
and i defenitly gonna ask again for that…
but i also do theatre shows…seated audiience…
and no, i can’t twiggle the next tempo to come before jumping to the next…
but yes, i got applause breaks here…
and i’m afraid for the next show tour, i"ll better stay with my old and proofed live rig…
half half case with a mackie onyx 8, a mpd 32, a wire less shure, a tc voice live and one of my good old black mac books running ableton…
but hell yeah, for the club nights to come from this autumn on, i gonna beat the s***t out of all these traktor guys…
thanx for now…still open for any ideas and tips…but i’ll be back pretty soon, i’m afraid…
Everything you have described can be done with a little experience and prep. If this is important to you, a journey through the manual is in order. My apologies for being so blunt but the OT cannot be understood and used in a pro setting by just posting a few forum questions.
this beast needs time…and sure there is always some solution with it.
asking here, by now, is more for coming down and getting grounded…
relaxing my nerves by getting the feeling, i’m not alone with this…
because…i am in a hurry…no way around it…
the manual is under my pillow these days and some of the vid tutorials i now by heart now…
but damn it, in a pro setup and night by night in front of 1500 sold tickets, i’ll better know what i’m doing…
and if you’re not capable of dancing in the sleep with it, there’s lot’s of options to fuck it up completly…by the way, does the ot have an overall panic button?
ah, let me guess…we got the reload part command for that…right?
oh, i shit in my pants for the first time in years again…
and yesh, talking to you guys helps…much appreciated…thanx.
In my honest opinion, and it’s just my opinion, you’re selling your soul to the DJ devil when following a two deck approach with a bunch of brickwall-limited, mastered tracks. Is this all you bought the OT for?
I was thinking a lot about how to compete against DJ’s loudness-wise, before we went on stage next to DJ’s for the first time. We used a SPL Dynamaxx as backup, to pump the sound more up if needed, but then I recognized that 1) there was not that much of a loudness difference on a large PA, and 2) people enjoyed the refreshing dynamics in the sound, especially when …
EDIT: I deleted what I wrote about a DJ.
Load some one-shots in the OT, some snippets of nice melodies, and program some nice patterns, scenes and stuff on the OT. Have fun! It’s not about what other Elektron users think about you when they might be watching your show (and hence also not about what I think), I would just recommend to open your mind for the world of fun!
EDIT: you seem to be a ‘bigger fish’ than I am. maybe the situation is different when people purchased tickets for your shows. as a compromise, I’d recommend to have a dual setup: a safe choice to which you can switch back (for instance 8 banks of DJ stuff) and a fun setup. you might then shift more towards fun as the tour proceeds.
See? “L’enfer c’est les autres (elektronauts)”
Apparently the satirical component (about 50%) of my post was not fully appreciated. You also ignored that i purposely gave a simple example.
MK7, if you follow a dogma of single-shots and umastered audio in live sets –
I have to ask you back: Is that all you bought the OT for?
(why not MPC, why not electribe?)
I don’t doubt your approach is valid, i actually have regular gigs in this mode with my band, which is more of a wavy rock/rap thing, rather than club techno. (@reeloy, yes we get applause breaks, during which i manually change the master tempo to that of the next song)
But believe me, there are times when the subtle approach is simply not satisfying/adequate/desired… Besides, even if you just DJ with the OT as a 2deck, you have massive possibilities. I.e. i could have 2 decks with neighbour machines, and still have four tracks for single shot noodling or flex recording (which is pretty close to my setup, except i usually have thru machines for hardware, in place of the above mentioned static slot decks)
PS. and if you really deride playing full mixes, you probably have never designed and used a ducking/step-kill LFO in OT – enabling you to insert/overlay new drums or sounds or synthlines, over whatever audio you might have in there or in external hardware. (think ext. sidechain on TR-8, or drumagog or whatever)
i believe using a limiter on your main is actually a bit of a mistake…
big PAs will already have a limiter on them… and DJs don’t limit their full mixouts coming from the DJ mixer, it’s just the single tracks that are limited. you know this of course, sorry. using a limiter on top of your stereo sum will simply squash it SPL style before it gets squashed by the PA limiter. you won’t get much more loudness at some point, because the PA limiter will not let you. this effect is not as pronounced when limiting a track beforehand, because you will have applied that limiting/mastering specifically to your track, not a preset that needs to sound good all night long on all kinds of source material, also, maybe still have some headroom from the DJ mixer. sometimes it’s just a matter of giving/taking 2 or 3 dB crest factor to make a difference between ugly and beautiful.
yes but this has not as much to do with “dynamics” as people like to think, but with the frequency distribution of the mix and most of all, sound pressure level in the club. means that if the dj was splitting everyones ears with 3.5 khz at 114dB, your civilised, reasonably flat mix at 99dB will sound so much better, even though less loud.
btw. this is an interesting read for people who think “dynamics” is easily defined, even Bob Katz might have gotten a few things wrong, if you really think about it.
This. You can describe what’s going on technically with much more precision than I can. In essence, loudness does not seem to be that much of an issue on stage as many people think.
Of course, my post was somewhat provocative and pronounced I understand your point and everybody can use his OT for whatever he wants. No need to defend yourself.
You’re also right that I might as well be using a MPC or Electribe. The answer to your question is simple: the crossfader and all those modulation possibilities If Akai would bring out a new, compact, stand-alone MPC, things might change…
i agree, spontaneity is very important!
to be honest, i have much more fun doing completely improvised jam sessions together with friends, than having to “represent” a particular style or artist brand.
but sometimes you just have go up there and make some money.
Btw, I do appreciate the sarcasm in your post above, funny read
Back to topic, regarding a setup for the club environment, based on loops but not like Traktor in a box. I’d recommend a two deck approach but more like Erase’s Vinyl meets Octatrack setup (see youtube) in a box: Tracks 1-4 play back your loops. Loops are stored in large sliced files so that you can easily switch between them by turning a knob (or moving the crossfader when slice number is assigned to the crossfader). Maybe some neighbor machines. Tracks 5-8 are cued and connected to a different channel on the mixer, as MichalHo suggested, but they contain just flex recorders and all sorts of recorder trigs, playback trigs, slices, weird parameter settings, crazy scenes. Just have a look at “transition trick”, “beat juggling”, “live remixing” youtube videos for an inspiration to set these tracks up.
Then, you can easily impress whoever is nearby, deliver an interesting show, stay busy on the OT, but always have a safe soundbase on your first 4 tracks to which you can dance.
some things happen to be strange here anyway…half of them are for lack of knowledge…
the other half might be for lack of concentration…
but what happens with one of the PICK UP MACHINES i’m fooling around with rigt now, seems more like a BUG…
so i got track 3 and track 4 with pick ups…both in AB…one2 trig…lenght on 32…
everthings works fine…i see the gain, jear the through signal and if i press rec AB it starts recording…moving on straight to overdubbing in the next cycle…finishing overdubbing by pressing recCD…
stopping recorded loop by pressing CD again…starting again by pressign CD again…
recording new by hitting AB again…cool.
did that with track 4 for a while…but now it just won’t happen like this anymore…
if i record another or new cycle, no matter if i stop and throw out all recordings first, of if i clean up on the run, which is a different thing sometimes!?, once i finished the recording cycle it won’t play those 32 steps it recorded…
instead it get’s stucked in step 1 and 2!!!
sounds weird of course and even looks weird…plays 1/2/1/2/1/2…and that’s it…
even rebooting, changing to another machine in that track slot and back to pick uo agian won’t help…
still the same…straight away again…recording 32 steps but playing just 1/2/1/2/1/2…brrrrrrrrr…and that’s it…
pick up machine on track 3 still works fine…
what do i miss here…? …some master slave pick up controversity…?
i don’t get it…
and how do i get rid of the sync master tempo to loop lenght option…cool feature…but i don’t need it…and if fucks up the my flow if i only hit the wrong recording button once…which will happen in action so easily that i have to make sure it won’t happen, no matter what…
.