ABLETON USERS how you sync MnM without monitoring latency

jahjahshit · 2014-09-24T10:40:11.000Z

Nice article about syncing external in Ableton

How to use hardware synthesizers with Live

Live Versions: 8 - 10 Operating System: All Live allows for seamless integration of MIDI-enabled hardware such as synthesizers, drum machines and samplers. If you are using CV-enabled hardware, s...

SpacesSound · 2014-09-26T13:34:18.000Z

results will always be sketchy when using any kind of clock sync with midi over USB from a DAW. I struggled for many years with this issue before I got myself a Syncgen Pro from Innerclock systems. Seems expensive but it is invaluable. The SND is also probably great - they make killer gear - but is exxy.

William_WiLD · 2014-09-29T09:30:25.000Z

Thanks for the Rest & Maier Midiclock i will check it

ZenPunkHippy · 2014-09-29T10:36:19.000Z

There is also this:

http://www.midiclock.de/midiclock.php

Anyone any experience of this unit?

Nice device, but it’s for syncing hardware only.

The difference with the Sync Gen is that it syncs to audio pulses sent from the DAW/host (using a special plugin they include), and then outputs a stable clock to your hardware.

The device above only outputs MIDI clock from it’s own internal clock, so it would not help with syncing a host.

William_WiLD · 2014-09-29T11:00:37.000Z

Yes their arguments are SYNC DAW and Hardware… for the Midiclock box.

But in the owner manual they say exactly what ZenPunkHippy said. You need to deal with Audio Latency and Prefer Pro Midi Interface in the configuration picture.

As far as i know technology from ACME and SYNC GEN is based on Audio pulses which is probably most updated technology… Because Midi Master clock exist since a long time now…

I think SYNC GEN and ACME still the references for me in this territory. But for the price you can test before to invest really in the midi clock to see if it’s ok for you ! But if i release a box like that, i probably made video to show the sync timing… Which they don’t done for now, i search and nothing so… i only think it’s a master midi clock like many others.

Cheers

Blip · 2014-09-29T12:02:00.000Z

Not sure what the deal is with suggesting MIDI sync products, when the core of the issue is latency that occurs on any digital system.

There is no zero-latency solution if you want to process your inputs with plugins inside your DAW. Anyone who tries to say otherwise does not grasp the fundamental limitations of digital audio - real-time does not exist in a computer, there’s always some latency.

The only way you can get close is by lowering the buffer size of your DAW settings until latency becomes almost un-noticeable (it will still there but may be as low as ~5ms). The downside is all your plugins will now consume far more CPU.

William_WiLD · 2014-09-29T14:11:13.000Z

it’s regarding MIDI sync with a lot of equipment like old standards DIN, Modular, Machines and DAW / Computer…

it’s really help to get all that world in better SYNC.

William_WiLD · 2014-09-29T14:13:49.000Z

Of course in RECORD you set the lower buffer size you can get without cut signals and you put up progressively you buffer size in playback as far as your plugins number is high progressively in the session of work

Blip · 2014-09-29T16:15:51.000Z

[quote=““William WiLD””]
Of course in RECORD you set the lower buffer size you can get without cut signals and you put up progressively you buffer size in playback as far as your plugins number is high progressively in the session of work
[/quote]

I’m not disagreeing that a good product for sync (MIDI /DIN / modular etc…) will help get a good stable setup. Especially if you have a lot of gear to sync up

However, my understanding is the OP is actually referring to digital audio latency. In particular to the strange scenario where your soundcard monitoring has different latency to the DAW output. For example, on a MOTU you can monitor the input via the soundcard’s software mixer (Cuemix). But this wont let you apply your DAW plugins. If you monitor the sound card’s input section through a DAW you are hit with the A/D and D/A conversion which adds latency - dependent of I/O buffer size, but you can use plugins.

Incidentally i suspect the reason you get zero-latency through the software mixer (Cuemix) is because the MOTU analog inputs send their signal to an analog monitoring which is routed to the analog output stage… Simultaneously the input signal(s) is sent the A/D converter → DAW → and back out to D/A converter. And thats where the latency will always hit you, regardless of how good your MIDI sync box is.

William_WiLD · 2014-09-30T12:22:12.000Z

Sure what you say is relative to all sound cards with direct monitoring activated (possibility)…

Anyway i not have tested a Midi Sync solution so i can’t by experience tell if it’s better to activate direct monitoring according with Daw monitoring in relation with the sync

or if it’s better to not working with direct monitoring and deal with audio compensation (delay) a bit

But i will soon be able to give details on my experience and share it there

todayidance · 2016-02-11T09:47:35.000Z

Interesting discussion…

I’m considering buying the sync get 2 pro so i can record my monomachine into ableton with everything being line-up nicely. Take the stress out of making music etc.

the only problem is my audio interface:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/focusrite/scarlett-2i4-g4868/
has RCA outputs, I’m using the only 2 TRS for my speakers.
as i understand to connect to the sync gen i need to TRS

So will using a RCA to TRS cable render the timing off? Basically do I need to buy another Audio Interface to with 2 spare TRS outs?

Also is the same true for SND ACME?

Many thanks
Alex

enossified · 2016-02-12T14:02:27.000Z

Audio cables have no effect on timing at all. No worries.

Bin · 2016-02-13T00:53:14.000Z

Ive experimented with various sync methods, i found that Lives MIDI clock was actually pretty tight after an initial lag on starting the transport. The clock compensation has a problem though when you add any external effects or instruments, the clock sync doesnt adjust in response to the added latencies, so i found myself constantly adjusting the clock delay.
Expert sleepers stuff gives good tight clock, but since it uses audio, any dropouts due to cpu spikes can cause timing errors or sometimes sync is lost and the mono stops. Pretty rare though, and being able to swing the clock is pretty sweet.

todayidance · 2016-03-02T16:23:21.000Z

So my sync-gen 2 arrived. To report I’m really happy with it - takes the stress out of adjusting audio clips etc. improves work flow, which is great.

I can now can happily combine ableton instruments and effects with the mnm whilst jamming.

for info i connect the sync-gen to midi-thru and use the midi in so that i can still play the mnm whilst its being triggered by the sync-gen. which i find pretty cool. i can even record in patterns live, whilst a loop is playing.

todayidance · 2016-03-02T19:23:32.000Z

edit - actually the sync works better when connected to the midi out of the mnm…

is there away of play notes through a midi controller, by connecting to the midi out or midi thru of the mnm?? im guessing not…

polite_society · 2016-04-07T08:33:55.000Z

I found out that ableton sync works pretty well with elektron stuff. i haven’t tried it with actual ableton, or an actual MM, but I have my octatrack synced up nice and tight with patterning on ipad the other day using an intermediate sync to clock app.

tzamas · 2016-07-30T18:41:29.161Z

Hello guys,I just bought sync gen 2 ,but i havent been able to install it properly yet.
I have connected 2 audio cables from my soundcard into Transport/Sync inputs of the Sync-gen,and on ‘‘Trigger’’ i have connected the machinedrum
Do I need to make some adjustment on ableton or something? I open the vst on an audio channel but there is a static buzz coming out from the speakers,nothing else
help pls
thanks <3

jahjahshit · 2019-02-11T01:24:32.933Z

After 3 years i stumble upon that old post of mine and i have the solution for free straight from ableton’s preferences no need buying anything fancy at the midi preferences tab you send a negative delay to the midi clock that ableton is sending to your hardware and boooooom everything is solid again, it was too easy afterall

jbone1313 · 2019-02-11T01:27:36.919Z

Please don’t do that. That delay is not compensated. As you add latency inducing devices, your sync will be off.

Do this instead.

Solution for ITB-OTB clock sync and latency in Ableton General Discussion

Well, I think I discovered an even better solution for all this, and I updated the OP to refer to this post accordingly. Turn on Reduced Latency When Monitoring. Do not place any latency inducing devices in any signal path through which you are monitoring machines you are syncing or instruments you are playing or triggering with a hardware sequencer, EXCEPT for External Instrument device. The External Instrument device does not seem to add latency to the INSTRUMENT tracks on which they are pla…

jahjahshit · 2019-02-11T01:44:47.907Z

not much problem the midi clock latency is stable if you find it in the midi pref on a blank project you are ok that number will always stay the same… then the add up latency introduced by the plugs you put on a project is removable from the drive error compensation in Audio tab of the preferences. So if you notice latency on your recording you jump right to the drive error and you move it -1 2 3ms depend on the case.