Ableton, Push & Elektron set up questions

OHEXOH · 2013-12-15T12:12:06.000Z

Hi

I’m having a few teething issues setting up my Elektron gear with Ableton gear. Currently the best I have it is I can use Push to play my MnM / A4 / MD but the feedback is one way; i.e.: I can play from Push into the MnM but when I play back the MnM the notes aren’t displaying back on the Push. I’d like it to be 2 way so I can see what notes are being triggered - handy when I return to a track days / weeks later.

I did manage to get this sort of working but I’d quickly run into Midi feedback loops and strange happenings.

Wonder if anyone has a similar set up and what kind of configurations you’re rocking?

I’ve also noticed that if I play stuff from Live with my Elektron gear there is a big midi delay which makes stuff quite out of sync and the only real way to get around this is to render the hardware output into Live. I’ve tried the mid latency offset but it caps out at 200ms and my sync appears to be more than this.

Any help / tips would be really useful.

XOX

gbravetti · 2013-12-15T16:03:51.000Z

Same setup here, I will check it as soon I back to he studio and I’ll return with some info in case you didn’t solve it yet.

natrixgli · 2013-12-15T16:55:11.000Z

""OH/EX/OH"":

I’ve also noticed that if I play stuff from Live with my Elektron gear there is a big midi delay which makes stuff quite out of sync and the only real way to get around this is to render the hardware output into Live. I’ve tried the mid latency offset but it caps out at 200ms and my sync appears to be more than this.

Mac or PC? And what are you using for a sound card? Sounds like your buffer sample size is probably set very high. If using an audio interface you should be able to adjust this via it’s software. If using built in audio (on Mac) you can adjust this via Live’s preferences under ‘Audio’. Lower size = less latency. However it can also mean lower quality playback if you don’t have good enough hardware.

OHEXOH · 2013-12-16T12:21:16.000Z

Hey there, so I had a fiddle with my sound card - basically did a full restart and it seemed to clear the problem - sorry me being a doofus! (When in doubt, try a restart!)

Re: the other Live / Push + Elektron integration - any help with similar set ups would still be super useful. My current set up is this:

Mac + Live 9.1 > TM-1 > MnM (out routed back to TM-1) > MnM thru routed to A4 > A4 thru routed to MD

I’ve tried a few different configurations but can’t seem to get the 2 way talking happening with Live / Push & the Elektron gear without the feedback. I have the MnM out going back to Live as I’m using the SFX6 so I’d like the keyboard to also act as a controller (for Live).

I’m hoping there’s a better way to get all this cooking :-))

/OH

gbravetti · 2013-12-19T11:29:30.000Z

Ok I just back home and I’ll be pleased to help you

First of all, this is your actual setup right?

Screen_Shot_2013_12_19_at_9_26_11_AM.png1105×350 20.5 KB

Now tell me, do you use Ableton Live for MIDI sequencing the A4 and the MD or you use the A4 and MD internals step sequencers?

OHEXOH · 2013-12-20T12:08:09.000Z

That’s my set up yes. I’d like to have Live midi sequence the A4 & MD but also use their internal sequencer when I want to be more hands on in Elektron-land.

I realise, I want it all - ha!

I’m just wondering perhaps how others (like yourself) have your set up working and how it performs. I know I was getting a lot of stuck notes and Midi feedback when I tried patching a certain way.

Thanks for taking the time out to help.

OH/

gbravetti · 2014-01-22T03:03:51.000Z

I just back to work those days.

I already solved a couple of things with Push, I have recording’s and playback’s feedbacks perfectly working for the OT MIDI tracks on Ableton Push, so I can see what is recorded on Push and at the same time add/replace notes.

Do you still need help with that?

OHEXOH · 2014-02-03T09:54:02.000Z

Oh nice! Must be great having everything running smoothly. If I’m using just one Elektron device I can get it running like the way you have (2 way input and feedback) the problem happens when I start adding more Elektrons into the mix. When I pipe data back to Ableton the obvious way (last Elektron in the chain out > Ableton) I start to get feedback as I guess the out goes back through Ableton and back into the Elektron chain.

Are you using more than an OT?

/EX

gbravetti · 2014-02-07T03:30:46.000Z

I’m using one OT as main sequencer, also i have some other synths sequenced with the OT.

The key here to avoid feedback is to use two MIDI tracks in Live, one for monitoring, and other for note send.

For example:

The monitoring track will be something like this:

Midi Track - Input from OT, Output None.
This track has MONITORING ON
For the OT you will need one monitoring track for each MIDI track you use. Then you have so select this track from push to see it’s content feedback while playing.

The send track

Midi Track - Input from Push, Output OT to the Auto Channel.
Monitoring is set to auto and you ARM this track manually prior to rec.
Then you select the track you wanna rec on the OT and the Auto channel does the rest.

II think you can add the MD to the equation.

Does the MD use several MIDI channels? how many? Does the MD has Auto CHannel also?

OHEXOH · 2014-02-07T13:31:28.000Z

Thanks man. Sounds a little complicated but manageable.

Right now I have the following set up…

MAC > TM-1 > MonoMachine from here I send the Thru to the MachineDrum and then thru onto the A4. This works nice and I can control everything (feedback is ok if I work from Push as the Midi clips will update Push when playing).

But if I add an Out from MonoMachine > TM-1 > Mac then I start getting the feedback (the reason I’d like to do this is because I have the SFX-6 with Keyboard).

What I’m trying to figure out currently is how to be able to control all the Elektron gear without Live and without having to rewire my gear. Currently I have to unplug the cable from the MonoMachine’s Thru and connect it to the Out. I worry that the plugging / unplugging will damage something over time. Are there Midi boxes that can handle this?

Overall I’d say I’m 80% happy with how it’s working (and it’s a lot smoother than my past Midi experiences in the late 90’s)… but yeah… I’m a perfectionist

Thanks for your help man!

gbravetti · 2014-02-07T16:31:25.000Z

You said MIDI Clips, are you using Live for sequencing?

OHEXOH · 2014-02-10T12:38:04.000Z

Ideally I’m trying to do a bit of both - have some sequences running via Live and others internally. Maybe this is where I’m going wrong - one or the other?

boboter · 2014-02-10T13:01:04.000Z

Regarding the sync issues:

It is simple not possible to perfectly sync hardware sequencers with a DAW using just midi. You can try to set it up as decent as possible and live with it - or get something like Innerclock Systems Syncgen 2. It’s expensive but well worth the investment.

The problem has nothing to do with Elektron gear or Ableton, it is how Midi is handled inside the computer.

gbravetti · 2014-02-18T18:51:08.000Z

""boboter"":

Regarding the sync issues:

It is simple not possible to perfectly sync hardware sequencers with a DAW using just midi. You can try to set it up as decent as possible and live with it - or get something like Innerclock Systems Syncgen 2. It’s expensive but well worth the investment.

The problem has nothing to do with Elektron gear or Ableton, it is how Midi is handled inside the computer.

Perfect enough for me using Ableton as slave.

gbravetti · 2014-02-18T18:58:59.000Z

""OH/EX/OH"":

Ideally I’m trying to do a bit of both - have some sequences running via Live and others internally. Maybe this is where I’m going wrong - one or the other?

If you use MIDI clips, it is very easy to have visual feedback, it is complicated to have visual feedback when you want to see what is recorded on the machines in real time and at the same time be able to record new notes on them. Anyway, in my setup is all working perfectly.
Basically you need that all your gears reach Ableton, and that Ableton reaches all your gear.
You could need two boxes, a splitter and a merger. Then connect all your gear to a Merger then into Ableton, and from Ableton to a Splitter then to all your gear. Choose wiselly your MIDI channels, and choose carefully MIDI Ins and OUTs on Ableton MIDI’s Tracks to avoid feedback.
And don’t forget to deactivate the Thru option on your MIDI interface if there is one.

OHEXOH · 2014-02-18T22:06:03.000Z

I don’t know - I just can’t seem to get it working. I tried to have it running with Ableton (and Push) as the master but still getting feedback. The problem happens when I want to control other gear on the chain.

To recap: Ableton > TM-1 (out) > MnM > (out) > TM-1 (in) > Ableton <— this works fine and I can control the MnM pretty well.

However as soon as I add a MD into the mix I get the feedback. I have the MD connected to the MnM via it’s thru. There’s no signal going back from the MD anywhere (the Midi signal stops there) but Push’s light start going crazy (feedback) as soon as I press a pad.

So the signal is going to the MnM and back into Live and round. I simply don’t get why. I don’t have the MnM to react to CH10 so that midi should pass thru and onto the MD but it isn’t.

So frustrating!!

OHEXOH · 2014-02-18T22:13:24.000Z

OK so I’ve sort of managed to fix it and that is by turning OFF any input from the TM-1 in the Midi prefs in Live. That way no signal comes back into Live.

This is kinda ok (as it stops the feedback) but it means I can’t use the SFX6’s keyboard to play into Live which I’d sometimes like to (Push’s pads are great but sometimes a nice keyboard works better for me).

Ah well, it’ll do for now. I need to figure out how to set up some Global settings so I can switch things around and back easily. I also might invest in a bigger Midi box so I can have a touch more control over the Midi path.

Mo’ money, mo money!

Thanks for your help gbravetti

gbravetti · 2014-02-21T01:18:06.000Z

Ok, in Ableton Live in MIDI tracks, “All Ins” is selected by default (MIDI Input Port), also All channels is the default value for MIDI channel, this is a per track setting.

So turn on TM-1 in MIDI prefs, then go track by track (MIDI ones) and set NO INPUT.

Once this is done, check for feedback, if there is no Feedback, start to choose MIDI inputs for your different tracks where you need them. Choose also the proper MIDI Channel, this is very important. because if you let all tracks to admit All Inputs and All channels is very alike you’ll have some feedback.

Remember that if you want to monitor your gear activity you have to create a MIDI track where MIDI input is TM-1 and output is Ableton Push.

Check twice which MIDI channels you set for each tracks.

Also you can use live to route process and rechanelize. Take advantage of this!

Good luck!