My experience with the beta versions of both Live and Move has been really good. No real problems with either and the whole Link Audio works really well over USB-C. I get to much latency when connected via WiFi but I think that is more down to my terrible Linksys mesh rather than the betas.
I think this pretty much sums up RNBO on the Move https://youtu.be/OFUbQ5TzrLw?si=Miit6U8A6J20rIgq
This is sort of right, but it’s actually a separate thing to Max. It’s pretty similar in operation but you can’t just take an existing Max device and export to RNBO, you need to rebuild it in RNBO, as far as I know. So you won’t just be able to take any Max patch and use it
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I made that mistake at first thinking I would have access to all Max objects. Bit long but this cleared a lot up for me where RNBO is concerned https://youtu.be/_Hn2m0-9gZM?si=SIM29OTaZa62f2EA
Is 2.0 beta quite stable now?
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Seems to be for me. I’ve had no problems.
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Ahh, thanks. Looks like it costs £299 on top of your Max licence. That’s pretty spicy
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You can get it on sale. I picked up a full version of Max and RNBO on Black Friday last year for…%50 off I believe? Max was also hugely discounted already because of my Ableton Live Suite license.
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No issues here either.
Do you get any USB whine or hum when its connected via USB-C? I still do get some leaking in, though not a lot. Much less than other USB instruments I’ve used in the past. Wondering if this is going to be a problem using Link Audio or not. I guess I can just download and install the Beta of Live 12 and try it out. I’ll report back if I do but curious about other people’s experiences.
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Yeah this annoyed me tbh. I do own Max crossgrade from Ableton which was already not cheap so it’s a pain that you can’t build for Move without laying out another £300. Maybe I’ll pick it up if they do a sale
Yeah, it’s not cheap. But it kind of makes sense to me when I think about how portable it makes whatever you make with the code, and how much work that actually takes to provide that functionality…
I’m just going to be using RNBO at first to develop a project that runs on a Raspberry Pi 4 (as well as Move, since that has become an export target), but the ability to port RNBO code to run natively as a web embed is pretty miraculous. It was already the right platform fit for what I need for something I’ve been planning for some time now, and the news that the Move was becoming an export target made it even sweeter.
If you haven’t seen Ableton’s Learning Synths website, it’s an incredible learning resource for teaching how synthesizers work. As someone who deeply understands the technical background of audio synthesis but has an interest in teaching and learning processes more generally, I find the site to be extremely impressive and inspiring. It was all built in RNBO! There’s a great article on the development process on Cycling74’s site. (I also feel like I had read that piece before, but I just noticed the bit about Jack Schaedler’s involvement, who created one of the best visual/educational resources I’ve seen on explaining sinusoids and the Fourier transform… incredible resource for anyone learning digital signal processing)
It’s not cheap for a perpetual license, but the subscription model makes it substantially cheaper to get a few months in to see if a permanent license is warranted. I didn’t even think about Black Friday sales, but that plus subscription availability makes the cost factor a lot more workable. But yeah, it’s expensive, and it’s a worthwhile discussion to have as to whether they’re reducing platform adoption with the licensing costs associated with it. That said, I still don’t think the costs are unreasonable.
Like… you can build one project that exports as an app for a Linux single-board computer, .js in a web browser, C++ code, a VST or AU where your code isn’t exposed as an editable max patch… it’s a pretty remarkable platform and expansion of the Max ecosystem that we haven’t even seen the first 1% of the fruits from it. I’m really excited to see what happens down the line with what everyone else is going to do with it.
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Are you getting whine or hum on digital audio? I definitely get a whine when I’m connected to another device via USB and analog audio, but that whine shouldn’t be present in the digital domain. The USB whine isn’t present when connecting to another device using a USB-to-DIN MIDI adapter on the Move alongside analog audio interconnects.
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Slightly late coming back to this - I’ve been lurking the Move Hackers discord for a long time but never really paid much attention, I only figured out since posting that like you say there are actually two quite different projects - Move Anything, which seems to be a framework for running things other than Move OS on Move, and Move Everything / Schwung, which piles a whole heap of heavily LLM generated extras on top of that.
Afaik, for Move Anything there’s a key combination to launch it and effectively “close” the stock OS? That’s more what I’d expect / be comfortable with, where Schwung has a whole “shadow mode” that runs over the top.
The Norns port I’ve seen mentioned involves Schwung, which for various reasons makes it a non-starter for me. It is kinda hard to figure what other projects are out there, Move Everything / Schwung got all the attention to the point that even as someone who was looking with a bit of interest it wasn’t clear that there are other Move hacks.
(Fwiw - no issue with this being moved to the Schwung thread, but I think it’s more appropriate here as it’s really asking about Move hacks other than Schwung)
Yes, they are technically two different projects, but Schwung was forked out from Move Anything’s source code (hence the similarity between Move Anything and the previous name for Schwung). As best as I can understand, Schwung really grew out of the (internal) MIDI, Audio, and Screen hooks initially developed for Move Anything.
I actually wasn’t entirely sure about this, since I never used Move Anything (which started as a launchpad emulation for the M8, which I don’t own), but they actually seem to operate in basically the same way. Move Anything allows you to switch the Move into a control surface mode (or a game of Doom, apparently) by holding shift, touching the capacitive volume knob, and pressing the big jog wheel encoder knob on the left under the screen. You exit the control surface mode and return to the Move interface (which has been running the whole time) by pressing shift and the jog wheel button together. This is exactly how takeover modules work in Schwung. There are additional parts to Schwung, yes, but I think you may be placing too much weight behind the phrase “shadow mode”-- if you don’t want to install any of the modules, you don’t have to, and you’d more or less just have Norns accessible when you choose to use it. There’s no heap of fluff piled on top of your Move with Schwung; it’s up to the user to decide how much they want with it, whether they want to install forty modules, five modules, or zero modules.
This is not an effort to convince you whether you should or shouldn’t use move anything or schwung or any other move hack; suit yourself any way you want! I’m honestly far more interested in the discussion about how things work and how we generally understand them to work.
LLM talk
it also seems to be somewhat of a taboo subject to address directly, but as someone whose views on LLMs could be fairly (but incompletely) described as “I ****ing hate what they’re doing to our planet,” I don’t think there’s much of anything wrong with how LLMs have been used to develop Schwung and to develop/port modules over to it from other open source projects. The schism between move anything and schwung over AI usage seems to have been mostly handled with civility from all sides, but I have to admit I’m puzzled by the way some people act as if touching an LLM (with an understanding of what they can/can’t/should/shouldn’t do) is like making a deal with the devil. I generally don’t think abstinence-only education works very well, and I think directing that anger over LLMs towards people like Sam Altman, Larry Ellison, Palmer Luckey, Elon Musk, and/or that cokehead who runs Palantir (and/or their employees) would get us a lot further towards righting the wrongs of “AI” than getting upset about some guy using Claude to port the JV-880 emulator to the Move (and to build an on-device screen reader for accessibility to sight-disabled people!).
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tldr: Move Anything exits and re-enters Move, like the official RNBO takeover. Schwung modules run on top (or underneath, depending on your perspective)
With Schwung, the goal was to run things “along side” Move as opposed to “instead of”. Schwung’s “Overtake” modules are mostly a UI convention: they relinquish all control of midi and LEDs to the module rather than trying to coexist. There is support for modules to exit Move and run on their own like Move Anything does, but they’re fundamentally different projects now, built on the work of hardware mapping (that’s now public via Ableton’s own source code) and some uncommon but standard methods of shimming Linux binaries.
That’s to say: both projects actually replace the Move binary and modify the OS to allow for arbitrary code to run, but Schwung is definitely more “invasive” in the sense that it’s an always running process and tools, as opposed to MA just running the shortcut monitor. It stays out of the way functionally but it does have some silent things always running (module host, skipback, midi monitoring, etc etc)!
Join us in the Schwung thread (or discord) to talk more!
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I used to get noise and hum when I had the audio and USB-C connected. I got one of these FeinTech ATG00101 Audio Ground… FeinTech ATG00101 Audio Ground Loop Isolator Filter Suppressor Noise 3.5 mm Jack Stereo Cable, Black: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo and it sorted it. But now I only have the USB-C cable connected to the Mac and I don’t get any noise over Ableton Link.
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So I finally downloaded version 2.0 beta, but I am not able to get live looping to work as I want.
The setup:
Digitakt 2 as master, with midi usb out to Move and midi din out to Peak.
Peak audio out goes into Move, and Move audio out goes in to DT2.
Then I sequence the Peak and want to live loop on the Move. The track is set to audio track, and it’s armed. But when I press the pad, nothing happens. If I set the Move to midi sync out, it works. But I would prefer to have the Move midi tempo synced with the Digitakt 2. Anyone knows how to fix this?
Is the DT set to send MIDI Sync via the USB port?
Yeah, but it worked with a roland um-one. Should it work over usb cable from dt2 too? Can dt2 be usb host?