Ableton live + Octatrack

Nano · 2024-03-28T13:41:25.777Z

Hi everyone.

I have done my first live set with my duo. My friend is using Ableton Live to send the songs out, but I use the Analog Rytm to play the drum parts and the Octatrack, which I already programmed step by step, to send midi messages to my synths (Minitaur, Microfreak, Typhon). My first live was with a click in my phones to sync it all, but I would like in the future to have Ableton change programs (in some cases arrangements in the OT) and start/stop the OT and AR.

What will the settings be?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Nano · 2024-03-28T13:46:31.158Z

PS I know that I have to enable CLOCK RECEIVE and TRANSPORT RECEIVE. I don’t understand which messages Ableton must send to let the AR and OT Play/Stop and let them play the right pattern and / or arrangement

alespardo · 2024-03-28T13:48:16.246Z

Better you ask this on the Ableton post. With the New live 12 you can start stop hardware with a button next to ext sync. Need to put the octatrack on ext sync Mode. Revive sync and transport from live and that’s it. For the program changes I don’t know how but check the octatrack manual which midi message you need to send from ableton to the octa.

Nano · 2024-03-28T13:52:51.721Z

Thanks. The problem is I don’t use Ableton, but Logic as a DAW (and only to record stuff)
, so I need to put it as simple as I can

forest · 2024-03-28T14:32:23.266Z

how tight is sync with ableton? I’m slaving to reaper right now and it’s questionable to say the least. I have to let it loop a bar before arming rec trigs and even then sometimes the recording is pretty off the mark

alespardo · 2024-03-28T19:21:37.795Z

It deppends the big is the proyect and the latency on it. More you load plugs more latency and have to deal with the delay compensation a lot. But I had a live show with the push 3 stand alone and the two models sync over usb and no problem.

Skwelch · 2024-03-28T19:28:11.422Z

Let me know if you manage to sync Ableton and the OT well, I tried to incorporate the OT into my band set up and the sync with Ableton and OT was HORRIBLE. Out of sync and so stuttery when Ableton tries to catch up with OT clock other way round is equally as bad.

Zac_Kyoti · 2024-03-29T01:13:56.982Z

Ableton as master sending audio sync to an external clock which drives the Octatrack. I will keep preaching the gospel until I die.

PlumWrinkles · 2024-03-29T19:05:24.636Z

can you elaborate a bit more on this gospel? curious what you mean here.

also, to OP, my octa gets grumpy when it’s not the boss in charge of time. maybe others have figured out better ways to have OT as a follower but mine really wants to be the leader for us all to be happy in the studio

Zac_Kyoti · 2024-03-30T07:33:07.007Z

Sure - It’s just I wasted far too much of my life trying to sort out sync and latency issues in a hybrid setup, before finding out about external midi clocks (specifically those driven by audio from the computer). When setups become more complex, the variables introducing latency and jacking up your sync can become numerous and complicated. Especially when you are adding multiple sequencers to the mix. I added an E-RM multiclock to my rig and my sync woes were just gone, overnight. I’m never looking back. I love being able to add and remove plugins in the DAW without desynchronizing my hardware; compensating for inherent latency in hardware; recording spot on the grid whether it’s Ableton or external hardware, etc. It’s great, and worth the cost of entry.

jmkmusic · 2024-03-30T17:11:38.117Z

Just to add to what has been said already, a Sample Accurate Clock (this is where the DAW sends out an audio pulse at 24 PPQN) will be more solid than the computer sending MIDI Clock. So if you had any trouble with stability, keep that in mind.

As far as integration, a Sample Accurate Clock like CLOCKstep:MULTI can respond itself to MIDI control and program changes, so you can integrate it tightly using automated commands, including things like controlling the external Start/Stop and even quantizing MIDI Commands so that they happen precisely on the bar’s downbeat.

And since you mentioned having an Audio Click track, CLOCKstep:MULTI has its own click track audio output that you can set up for each song (and automate it via MIDI Commands like the rest of the features if you want).

I think it’s worth checking out, but then I make the thing, so of course I’m going to say that.

Skwelch · 2024-03-30T20:23:08.369Z

Have any of you tried feeding OT’s metronome through cue out to ableton live’s tempo follower feature? or is it just as wonky?

jmkmusic · 2024-03-30T20:58:27.334Z

I haven’t tried that specifically (I may test it out later), but I have sent a control voltage signal into my audio interface and then I’ve had Ableton follow it using the Max for Live CV Clock In plug.

There’s one thing that kind of holds true regardless: Ableton runs at a much higher resolution than practically any audio pulse or CV sync you can send it. So it needs a bit of pre-roll to get locked in. If the Ableton tracks start immediately, there’s a stutter because, until Ableton receives 1 or 2 more pulses that it can interpolate, it doesn’t know what to do with its higher resolution data. The same holds true for real-time tempo changes even after the track is running and already locked in. But it is serviceable at least.

In almost every case I can think of, the device with the higher resolution should be the master for the best experience. But then Ableton is running on a computer where the MIDI output may not be great for MIDI Clock, which is why the overall best course seems to be using Ableton as the master sending audio clock at 24 PPQN instead of MIDI.

jeffped · 2024-04-06T20:48:41.949Z

What we need is SMPTE time code. Everywhere.

BassesAndPads · 2024-04-06T20:52:33.262Z

OT clock is very good and is always running. With ableton or bitwig and my MacBook m1 I had no problem getting synced recordings, and I used en ERM in the past . I record in at 64 buffer. I think it really matters what interface you use and how low you can set your latcny. I continue to record hardware this way with no erm required ( I sold mine).

Laser · 2024-04-06T21:18:51.329Z

I agree completely. Audio sync is better in every way! Everything on-grid, minimized jitter.

I’ll just add that you sometimes don’t even need any extra hardware.

I’m running audio-sync from a Mac, to a Hapax, a Deluge, and a 2nd Mac. It all syncs perfectly, and no worrying about too much MIDI data messing up the clock.

It just makes more sense to have clock separate from the other signals in a setup.