A4 strengths ? : Getting outside the 'typical' dull sound?

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
#41

Thanks!

I don’t remember exactly but there was definitely fm with some relatively wild tuning going on.
Since the oscillator tracking LFO mode came along I’ve used it on every single sound I’ve made with the A4 :slight_smile:

Another (very obvious) thing re the A4 sound in general: If you want a huge sounding monophonic line just use all 4 voices in unison mode (you can slightly change each one for extra texture). It’s a trade off of polyphony for beef but sometimes that’s exactly what you want.

And another thing that’s been touched on above: feedback! It’s hard to tame but you can get some real usable nastiness from it.

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#43

Yeah this does sound nice, great track :slight_smile: But at the same time it sounds almost identical to a few of my OP-1 patches. Which for me is kind of the central problem I have with my AK so far. It does ‘weird’ really well and instinctively. But so do a ton of cheaper digital synths like my Mininova. I guess I was just hoping for it to do ‘big/bright/full/deep’ as well, which are things I always associated with Analog synths. It does do those things I guess, just takes a lot of work sometimes. Maybe it’s just a mixed blessing having so many options onboard and the architecture etc is something that I need to entirely learn before I make any decision on selling…

#44

I think the weirdness you can get from an A4 is a little different from digital synths, at least the ones I use.

You’re right about it being a mixed blessing - it’s definitely less instantly pleasing than a lot of analogs I’ve played but it can be pushed into so many directions and made to do so much that I can’t imagine ever selling mine.

There’s always the possibility to layer with other synths for extra fatness too, sure it’s a work around but sometimes they lead to unexpected creativity.

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#45

Maybe i’m not a specialist, nor have an ultimate ear, but i really really love the sound of my A4 (question of taste).

About the term Dull, it’s not the one i would have use. Middle, as stated above seems more adapted.

#46

Like that track much :+1:

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#47

Regarding bass: https://soundcloud.com/jgb/join-our-married-peoples-dating-community

I finally found the lacking bass in my A4. It was actually quite easy once I figured ut out. Distortion after the first filter. Put it at +29 and play a triangle wave through it. Filter to taste with second filter.

The track above is A4 on all things synth, drums from Rytm. Perhaps my take on Plastikman, but taken away from that a bit.

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#48

I’ve managed to get the A4 to make some fantastic sounds, and create a few new things that I love.
I never expected it to sound like a Moog, DSI, or VCO’s but as others have said, when trying to go for a minimal set up the A4 does a lot, but it wont get close enough to satisfy me in that kind of basic/classic realm.

In an effort to trim things down even further I sold my Slim Phatty thinking I could rework some tracks using the A4.
I dont know what I was thinking.
Yet saying that isn’t really a slight to the A4 or anyone else, it’s just what I deal with.
None of these brands of synths sound alike or are capable of emulating the others special “character.”
The A4 feels less immediate in it’s UI, and the sound just doesn’t get big like I want it too.
Someone said it earlier, the A4 will be loud, and sound quiet at the same time.

Lately, I have been using single cycle wav’s on the RYTM to layer bass sounds which get me closer to where I wanna go.

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#49

Thanks ! I was wondering why I got a nice spike on bandcamp today! :slight_smile:

Yes, all the synthwork on Spectrum was A4 , drums were 707/909 and weird spacey effects were the nord micro

I started off using presets , but ended up editing some so far away from the originals I ended up resaving them for my own use . However I am pretty lazy so they are normally called " preset RTW001 , TBbassRTW etc

for a quick aside , I did a short gig for record store day up here opening for 3 punk bands and all i took was the A4

here is the recording

live at spin-it : Analog 4

and a pic of the setup

13029648_870622643065526_5163559995667449419_o (1).jpg1200×801 74.8 KB

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#50

Loving Spectrum. I’ve listened to it a few times online, but I ended up purchasing your cassette. Waiting for it as we speak.

Regarding the thread: I have a firm belief that music is hardly a matter of the equipment being used. It is more a matter of presence. And that is always what makes a song or piece (or live set) more than the quality of equipment being played: the presence that is brought to the table by the musician.

It is certainly preferable to have the equipment that you like. But saying that one instrument’s sound is “dull” isn’t really a reflection on the instrument.

Anyone can practice and prepare music on any instrument and make the performance compelling if they are willing to pay the price that is necessary to a) discover that instrument’s true ability and then b) have the balls to stand and deliver an authentic performance.

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#51

yeh its definitely not dull… are the presets dull? IMHO, yes they are - but thats not a reflection of the synth itself, but rather something else entirely…

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#52

you’re missing the point of the A4
it’s not about the synth engine, its about the parameter locks that creates the interestingness of the A4
every other synth i got sounds better, sonically, but the A4 can create all kinds of amazing textures and patterns, if you get into deeply programming the sequencer and the synth together, or you can build an interesting groove with it and then use other synths to do the typical synth sounds you are after.
dont compare it in this way, its not a true analog mono synth, its something else alltogether, if you dont squeeze its possibilities then just get rid of it cheers

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#53

A lot of good points here. I’ve gone back and forth on loving and hating the basic tone/texture/character of the A4 in the six months I’ve owned mine. And now that I’m slimming down my hardware setup I’ve decided the A4 is probably one thing that won’t get sold.

The discussion of the MiniNova was pretty interesting to me. I’ve owned an UltraNova for some time (same sound engine as the Mini) and when I first got it I had a period of frustration where all my patches sounded like cheesy electric organs. Then, somehow, it dawned on me I was using little or no modulation. I agree the A4 is not synth that oozes character from the init patch. The UltraNova isn’t either. I had a similar experience when first using the A4 people kept telling me my songs sounded like video game music (ugh!). I started experimenting a lot with modulation possibilities and got much more interesting tones out of the A4. On the other hand, my Mopho Keys just oozes character straight from the oscillators and filter. You can get fancier with it, but it just has a great basic character to it.

I also agree that a good approach to sound design is to leave the first filter all the way open and craft your initial sound using the MMF, overdrive, etc.

The sequencer. For me the sequencer cannot be detached from sound design on the A4. I learned this lesson the hard way when I owned a Monomachine some years ago. It was one of the very first pieces of hardware I bought and I sold it off before digging around the jam videos and tutorials and finding out that its all about the p-locks and making shifting sounds.

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#54

Agreed , I just returned from shipping off your tape! I was out of town until sunday night and was unable to post it yesterday, its coming airmail so 3-5 business days

The trick I found was to use gear that inspires me and/or is easy to express what I want , I love my vintage samplers, but the workflow is so obtuse ( yamaha A3000 Im looking at you!) that the Elektrons are always my go to devices

Id be perfectly happy with just an A4 actually.

R _ T

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#55

Maybe … there is a rule of thump like this.

If a synth has an initial signature sound, like the Moogs, the Prophets of Dave Smith, or the Oberheims, it’s not hard to dial in something pleasing, or what we expect. But this signature can be limiting too, because we are always traveling along the broad ways offered by Moog, DSI, and Oberheim etc.

If a synth tries to be more open to new ideas it almost always might lack an initial signature sound, because it tries to keep it open for the sound designer to find new ways. So it might not be surprising that inital sounds lack some character we would like to start with by only switching on an oscillator and a filter.

In summary:

Special character --> easy to find sweet-spots - and - harder to go “offroad”
Open character --> some learning required to operate the engine - and - freedom to go almost everywhere.

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#56

that was ace robert T
what a jam!!

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#57

I personally don’t look at DSI like that at all. I can’t say that there’s anything in particular about the sound of Dave’s synths that makes me think “that’s a Dave Smith Instrument”, at least not in the same way I would spot a Moog or Oberheim (that said, once I started buying some DSI equipment I had a pretty clear revelation that “that’s what a synth should sound like”, despite not having any one element with a particularly striking character). And at least in my experience they take a lot more work to grasp if you want to make the most of them, so far fewer sweet spots, and certainly more work to dial in in many cases. But…what you can do with them is awesome, especially with complex routing-so much so that I think every hardware manufacturer is falling a bit short by not cribbing every idea they can from him…and Dave Rossum. Damn, now I’m really wishing those two would collaborate…

Anyhow, I digress and I’ve likely been splitting hairs from the jump, but I guess the way you put DSI in with the others is markedly different from my own feelings and interpretations of their sounds and approaches. Just MHO.

#58

I dunno, I do tend to find there’s a distinctive brassyness in DSI gear, especially on pads - well apparently until the most recent models though I don’t have any experience hand on with the P2 etc . Its nice to a point…

They are brighter sounding than the A4/AK for sure but the A4/AK are definitely darker than neutral. The Elektron filters do need an amout of patience and they wont be for everyone, if you aint feeling it then sell it and get what you now realise you want. Life’s too short.

#59

I agree that Moogs, Oberheims, ARPs (like the 2600 or Odyssey), or a MS-20 have more signature than many other synths. Saying “that’s what a synth should sound like” fits well to the “analog” Prophets (P5,P8,and P6), as far as I can judge this.

#60

I tried and tried with A4. Never gelled with it. But I sure wouldn’t characterize it as a dull sounding synth. Perhaps a little too wild in fact, for me. I’d say it’s strength is hyper-modulated mid-range sounds, not something I want or need in my style of music.

I guess I was hoping for a compact little “do it all” workhorse, which it is, but turns out I prefer specialization, immediacy, hands-on, wider sweet-spots, etc. I’m more of a Juno 106 type of guy. Just don’t have a lot of time to sit down with a cup of coffee, instruction manual, and go into that introverted synth-nerd zone that the A4 seems to call for. I found myself always trying to replicate a simple Juno stab, Moog bass, or MS20 triangle lead. I got very close, but I’d rather just get those synths I think. I’m more about songwriting than deep sound design and I need more simple synths to support that. Hell, sometimes these days I wonder if I need a powerful hardware synth at all. I get plenty of mileage from putting software-synth samples into the Rytm!

I think it’s all about buying and trying, working through it, and zeroing in on your ideal setup. If the A4 isn’t working out, keep looking. No harm in that. People can argue until the cows come home about sound quality (I think it’s great!), but I think people will ultimately keep or sell based on workflow, UI, genre, time and energy for music-making, etc.

Also… damn, Robert T! Nice stuff!

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#61

Aha just made the connection with this video where you were explaining how electronic music got you out of the pressure of your former job !!!
Really nice to see what you come up with just the A4, inspiring !!