A4 deep bass tips?

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
#120

In the interest of fairness, i noted that the input level can also make quite a big difference, there’s a threshold after which the input level will not be matched 1:1 by a throughput level but the shape will distort as the disparity between levels gets more noticeable, even on a sine wave … it can be very accurate up to a certain point and the level is increasingly constrained, but the shape will change

So I ran these in Max to overlay them, but with a reduced input level to the filter stage (reso boost was off, but it seems to make no difference to the shape at these input/filter settings anyway) … i tried to match the energy at the nominally flat resonance 25 setting so that a tri/saw were roughly level, then left all settings and levels alone, except for resonance and i varied the shapes, this time presented showing the influence of resonance on the apparent transparency of the filter block, it gets more analogous with higher resonance at these osc/filter settings, but it may be problematic at other frequencies

attached for completeness - square is still suffering the most visually, there is some phase shifting due to the odd post-filter waveform and the detection algorithm struggles to find the rising edge

seeing this has not changed my view of how to use the machine, i still use my ears, but if you’re striving for a certain sound, it may be good to appreciate some of these nuances … resonance really plays a big part in this

So, sin/tri/saw/square Nord shapes (only varying the A4 redo, nothing else) (all else as per post above, including caveats) Note : no A4 oscillators

In all shapes, the increasing resonance is possibly having the effect of reducing the energy levels (away from the resonant freq) though it’s harder to read for the saw/sqr

Nord Sin

various resonances

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Nord Triangle

various resonances

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Nord Saw

various resonances

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Nord Square

various resonances

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Strange steamy white noise character in most A4 sounds ? What is it?
A few topics in one
Analog Four MKII out now!
#121

A thorough and interesting post, @avantronica !

1 Like
#122

@avantronica
Very accurate test! Res 64 still seems best setting. Freq is 127? Best square I got was with res 127 I think…

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#123

Yeah, same filter setup as above, LPF127 and PK127res0, just dropped the input level as the A4 responds non linearly to the input and redid

I didn’t go all out to find the best res, but pushing it beyond half way introduces ringing quite quickly

The trouble with very high res is that it makes musical filter modulation complicated, so for me the exercise was more about learning a bit more about how the A4 works … I hadn’t quite expected the results you see when you vary filter parameters, especially on the square

Keep in mind, the AK may be different, although I thought those documented differences were further down the voice path

We’ve also gone a little bit off-topic, but for understandable reasons, this exploratory part of the thread could be split off as a discussion on filter transparency perhaps

4 Likes
#124

Tried…Overbridge?

#125

wrt the 2 posts of waveform comparisons above, i thought it may add a bit more insight to present white noise, direct through and also through the filter, as per all the settings above … keep in mind the white noise is a moving spectrum, the relative levels fall and rise, but you can read the average to get a ballpark feel for what’s going on, it does seem that res 25 (as :3lektron: recommend) is about the closest over the full range, but to get the lower frequency levels heading towards the same as the source (relative to most of spectrum) the greater resonance boost does the trick (at the expense of the peak in the upper range)

whichever way you want to look at it, it’s clear the filter has an effect, even at the most neutral settings

as suggested above, it’s like a gentle high pass and also a bit of a low pass roll-off in the highest frequencies

the rest of the info displayed in above posts is not about trying to recover a magical shape for the source wave, but to try to understand what the filter may be doing - the added resonance doesn’t fix things per se

I’m increasingly wondering if the AK and new Mkii A4 are addressing this particular aspect of the filter (or possibly more parts of each voice circuit)

LPF Max Freq (variable res) & Variable FIlter set as Peak, Max Freq, Min Res

white noise source (Nord Modular) via Ext In

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:elan: resonance 0

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:elan: resonance 25

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:elan: resonance 64

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4 Likes
Techno sub bass on elektron a4, anyone?
#126

Been meaning to try some of these tips, finally got to it.
Tried Area303’s settings, then murkey’s tips.
I made a few tweaks and came up with this.

OSC1
Tun -12
Lev 80
Wav TRI
Sub OFF
PW 0

FILT
F1 17
Res 0
Ovr +19
Trk 0
Dep 0

F2 31
Res 50
Typ LP2
Trk 30
Dep 0

AMP
Atk 1
Dec 127
Sus 127
Rel 7
Shp 1

ENVF
Match AMP

If you’re like me and you still enjoy that old school sub wobble,
turn the Vibrato speed around 40, and the the VIB to 40-70 range

If you like a long sustained sub bass tweak the amp and flt env.
Turn both SUS to 0, and crank the REL to something like 90

Great thread!

9 Likes
#127

Hello, you probably forgot to put a Number before the ZERO on the DEP on the filter page. Well I think ?

#128

No depth on any envelopes, just key tracking on FLT2

#129

This thread :+1:

#131

Hey my contrib :slight_smile:

Play : Play Beetween F2-B2 (MY PREFERENCE FOR G#)

OSC1 : LEVEL 40 - WAV : FEEDBACK
OSC2 : TRIANGLE
OSX : OSC RETRIG ON
FILTER : CUT 8 - RES 48 - DEP 30 - OVR 30
FILTER2 : CUT 41 - RES 12 
AMP : ATK 2 - DEC 64 - SUS 32 - REL 64 - ENV 3 - REV 20
ENVF : ATK 1 - DEC 60 - SUS 56 - RES - ENV 3
LFO1 : SPD 32 - Y1K - FAD 47 - DST FM2
1 Like
#132

love it! thanks

#133

Soooo…MK2…whats now better in the Bass Department? Is it now easier to dial in satisfying bass or does it still need precise settings? Wider sweet spot i guess?

Nevermind, found the answers myself Here: Analog Four MKII out now!

2 Likes
#134

Before MK2, I use a BeyerDynamics Custom Pro with my A4 MK1 on the road with it’s Fourth position on the EQ system so I can design comfortably a Bass… when coming back to the studio I know exactly because of the EQ specifications what do I have to make to get the Bass I designed with an EQ in DAW or Mixer

4_Heavy Bass

Now with MK2 I can get what I want in Vibrant Bass mode (but I could put it to Linear without any doubt)
Also I would say YES it is now easier … I’m satisfied as hell and I can tell you I’m very exigeant to the LOW END of the spectrum… I designed this morning for the LOWEND101 pack (will be offered here for free on Elektronauts for this end the year) a REESE BASS and i can tell you i am way more than happy with the results i get.

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#135

Do you describe bass enhancement in MK2 as boost before 200hz?
I never complained about bass volume, but I miss coherent filters behavior and I miss transparency when audio go thru filter (sort of impossibility to get dry signal).

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#136

No I just said i using for my personal comfort when designing bass on the road a headphone with 4 different EQ position where the last one is Huge +10dB from 0 to 120hZ … and i was ok for Bass design on the Mark 1… and said with mark 2 I don’t need this crazy EQ to design Bass comfortably…

I would not describe as a EQ Boost it’s sounds more like fine adjustment for more deepness into the sound in the low register and also the Overdrive works better accordingly.

2 Likes
#137

Tbh, I’ve given up using AK and A4 for trying to get the bass I’m after. It’s too much work, trying to find the sweet-spot.

I can get close, using a saw on OSC2, with a sub and the phase reset (for rolling 16th style bass). …but, I don’t think it’s possible to dial down the sub level (please correct me if I’m wrong), to bring the saw further out in the mix. The envelopes don’t seem to be working for me either, to get the right attack for amp or filter.

I’m finding it better, to drive a Minitaur from the OT sequencer (especially since the recent sequencer updates). The sweet-spot on the Minitaur is so wide, it’s difficult to dial up something which sounds bad.

I’m also considering either a second Minitaur, or a Pulse 2 at some point.

1 Like
#138

at elektron they could also consider sharing some details on how to improve the ladder filter or how to bypass it, at least publish part of the circuit. is it a military secret?

#139

Summarising the thread, the filters degrade the sound.

#140

Not if you change oil and filters every year.

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