A4 CV out is waaaay off

Hexeract · 2014-07-30T11:26:10.000Z

Hey guys. Started using the A4 CV outs a bit more, and I’m realize both outputs are way off in terms of pitch, AND scale.

If it was just pitch i could tune my external synths accordingly, but the scale itself is way off, so there’s really no way to make music with this.

I can’t find anything in the manual about calibrating the CV output, and I’ve posted on the elektron computer support thingy, but they’re not getting back to me.

So I was wondering if anyone could help me?

analogback · 2014-07-30T12:09:42.000Z

What synth are you u using? Did u make sure its not set to hz/volt for a volt/octave synth?

Cocker · 2014-07-30T13:17:21.000Z

I think it’s only Korg and Yamaha that make use of Hz/Volt standard.

Most other analogue gear will be Volt/Octave

So if you’re not using either of those, it could be another issue.

However this area of the A4 manual is particularly light on details.

Really doesn’t make it easy for someone without a prior knowledge of control voltage to get a hands on explanation of how to use the A4 in this way.

Bit of a shame really. They should re-issue that manual

dcsux · 2014-07-30T13:33:47.000Z

It took me a while to get it to play nice with my moog, but I think I have it sussed now, and it was well worth the effort.
The manual for the moog says that middle C should be at 3.00v, and v/octave should be 1.00. This is certainly not the case.

My tip would be to ignore the middle c parameter initially. Adjust the V/oct value until you are hearing a perfect octave increment across a wide range (5 or 6 octaves at least) on the synth you are controlling.
Then adjust the middle C value to tune middle C by ear (you can use another synth, or just another synth track on the A4 for this, or even a chromatic tuner if you like).

Make sure the analog gear you are controlling has had adequate time to warm up though, as it will likely drift at first.

Hexeract · 2014-07-30T13:38:18.000Z

I have experience with manually calibrating analog synths, and tuning oscillators, and scaling them. All my synths are 1 volt per octave. I understand CV pretty well. The A4 is putting out CV that is out of scale, and out of tune. I looked through all the sub menus and there’s no way to recalibrate this.

To be sure, I check my synths pitch (moog sub phatty, moog sub 37, and future retro XS,) with Midi in from various controllers, they all checked out. Then I ran CV out from my other CV sequencer, not as dead on as the Midi, but still within +/-5 cents from C2 to C6. Acceptable. Then I ran the A4 CV output. It’s like -13 cents on C2, then jumps all the way down to -20 cents Bb when I play C3. C4 is like -33 Bb. Clearly the scale is wrong, and so is the tuning.

There has to be a way to manually calibrate this right? I ran the automatic oscillator calibration, but it didn’t help. I looked in all the CV sub menus and at all the options, didn’t see what I needed.

Is there something I’m missing?

analogback · 2014-07-30T13:47:03.000Z

trimpots, get in there!

Mihajlo · 2014-07-30T13:55:32.000Z

I had no problem using slim phatty with cv (after it warms up), but had some wierd pot problems with Minitaur.
but that was after i installed minitaurs newest OS… back to Rev 2, and it was fine…

my A4 is going to this user: analogback (i know you are worried man, i feel you), but i think the newest the synth/module, the less problem youll have…

dcsux · 2014-07-30T14:03:32.000Z

""Hexeract"":

I have experience with manually calibrating analog synths, and tuning oscillators, and scaling them. All my synths are 1 volt per octave. I understand CV pretty well. The A4 is putting out CV that is out of scale, and out of tune. I looked through all the sub menus and there’s no way to recalibrate this.

To be sure, I check my synths pitch (moog sub phatty, moog sub 37, and future retro XS,) with Midi in from various controllers, they all checked out. Then I ran CV out from my other CV sequencer, not as dead on as the Midi, but still within +/-5 cents from C2 to C6. Acceptable. Then I ran the A4 CV output. It’s like -13 cents on C2, then jumps all the way down to -20 cents Bb when I play C3. C4 is like -33 Bb. Clearly the scale is wrong, and so is the tuning.

There has to be a way to manually calibrate this right? I ran the automatic oscillator calibration, but it didn’t help. I looked in all the CV sub menus and at all the options, didn’t see what I needed.

Is there something I’m missing?

Still sounds like you need to play with the V/Oct value on your A4 (ie. Function + CV A/B/C/D)

cv_page.jpg880×313 37.2 KB

analogback · 2014-07-30T14:16:13.000Z

hmm… so you can adjust the C voltage and voltage scale from this menu?
)

analogback · 2014-07-30T14:18:03.000Z

""Mihajlo"":

I had no problem using slim phatty with cv (after it warms up), but had some wierd pot problems with Minitaur.
but that was after i installed minitaurs newest OS… back to Rev 2, and it was fine…

my A4 is going to this user: analogback (i know you are worried man, i feel you), but i think the newest the synth/module, the less problem youll have…

looking forward to it
I can"t see any problems that can"t be solved

dcsux · 2014-07-30T14:19:32.000Z

""analogback"":

hmm… so you can adjust the C voltage and voltage scale from this menu?
)

mais oui!

analogback · 2014-07-30T14:47:05.000Z

c’est fantastique!

Hexeract · 2014-07-30T22:18:05.000Z

""Mihajlo"":

I had no problem using slim phatty with cv (after it warms up), but had some wierd pot problems with Minitaur.
but that was after i installed minitaurs newest OS… back to Rev 2, and it was fine…

Yeah but like i said, i tested the synths against another CV sequencer and keyboard controller. The issue is not on the moog side of things.

Hexeract · 2014-07-30T22:19:03.000Z

""dcsux"":

Still sounds like you need to play with the V/Oct value on your A4 (ie. Function + CV A/B/C/D)

cv_page.jpg880×313 37.2 KB

Yep I’ve been in that menu.

Doesn’t that seem weird that I need to start sending uneven arbitrary voltages, from a digital unit that should be digitally calibrated to send the correct voltages?

to fix the scales i’ll have to change it to like .78 volts instead of 1v per octave, or something, I mean that’s just so crazy that a digital unit would need to be hacked like that to function properly.

Hexeract · 2014-07-30T22:21:03.000Z

""analogback"":

trimpots, get in there!

I think this may be the only solution. DO you know where i can find a layout of the inside of the analog four? Does it open in a way that allows for easy access to the pots? Do you know which pots control CV out?

apeirophobe · 2014-07-30T22:29:03.000Z

""Hexeract"":

[quote=“analogback”]trimpots, get in there!

I think this may be the only solution. DO you know where i can find a layout of the inside of the analog four? Does it open in a way that allows for easy access to the pots? Do you know which pots control CV out?[/quote]
So you would rather void your warranty and screw around with trim pots than adjust a couple of parameters from a menu? Have at it
Seriously, it only takes a couple of minutes to tune and I’ve only needed to do so once.

Hexeract · 2014-07-30T23:36:31.000Z

""apeirophobe"":

So you would rather void your warranty and screw around with trim pots than adjust a couple of parameters from a menu? Have at it
Seriously, it only takes a couple of minutes to tune and I’ve only needed to do so once.

Yeah you’re right.

I’ll mess with the voltage output and see if that works.

dcsux · 2014-07-31T06:33:15.000Z

[quote=“” apeirophobe""]

[quote=“Hexeract”][quote=“analogback”]trimpots, get in there!
[/quote]

I think this may be the only solution. DO you know where i can find a layout of the inside of the analog four? Does it open in a way that allows for easy access to the pots? Do you know which pots control CV out?[/quote]
So you would rather void your warranty and screw around with trim pots than adjust a couple of parameters from a menu? Have at it
Seriously, it only takes a couple of minutes to tune and I’ve only needed to do so once.[/quote]
And for the record, although it sounded way off with my slim phatty with the default settings (1v & 3v), once it had warmed up, and I had figured out how to tune it, the values I ended up with were something like 1.09v for v/oct and 2.98v for middle c. Not too far off (but I guess 0.09v/oct can make a big difference over a 8 octave range - >1semitone per octave).

Steevyhead · 2014-07-31T07:37:39.000Z

I had to do this with both my MS20 and Minibrute.
I had fired it up, and was so excited to get going, and once the sequences were playing I scratching my head as to why it sounded like absolute hell…

I started playing with things in the V/OCT section for each (as the synths were tuned pitch perfect to one another, and The values I ended up with were WAAAAAAY away from 1V/o.

The bright side… I wrote the numbers down, and now its a 30 second operation.

Good Luck man!

aleale62 · 2014-07-31T08:20:01.000Z

Did you already check the A4 CV out with a voltmeter?