A workflow question on sound vs coherence

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

Friends.

I’ve been gearless for awhile. Then, a few weeks ago, I returned to the Octatack and I’m happy I did so.

Having re-acquainted myself with it, I’m ready to pair it with something. Since I’m a keyboard player, I want this to be a keyboard of sorts. I’ve narrowed it down to a Sub37 or an Analog Keys, for substantially different reasons, though.

Preferably, what I’d like is a small keyboard workstation that allows me to write foundations for complete tracks. There are really very few options out there. The Analog Keys, JD-XI and Akai MiniAk / Alesis Micron are the only ones that in one way or another can live up to the task (as far as I know), and of those, the Analog Keys is the only option, as far as I see it.

With this complete track, I’d record it like pieces and bits into the Octatrack, and then take it further with loops, drums, resampling … you know, Octatrack stuff.

But there are two things stopping me from getting the Keysk and considering the Sub37 instead -

I don’t particularly like the workflow of the Analog Keys. I’ve had extensive time with it, and know it quite well. I just don’t enjoy playing it that much. But in terms of features, it’s a great instrument and can certainly make great tracks on its own.

And second - I love the sound and workflow of the Sub37.

But if I’d go for the Sub37, I have concerns that in the end, I’d just miss the entire part of composing something more complete. Essentially, even putting just simple stuff together would require me to reach for the Octatrack, and then work out a track layered as recordings, not work the sequencer like it was a piece of sheet music with several timbres going on at the same time. I can take an entire idea from start to finish with the Keys. I can’t, with the Sub37.

At heart, I love the workstation concept, I love reworking something in the Octatrack, and I love the Moog sound more than any other synth sound.

But when you’re (very) limited on space and time and money, you have to choose.

Essentially, the heart would pick the Sub37 and the head would pick the Analog Keys.

What would you do?

#2

Buy both. Sell the one that you like the least…
I am half kidding…

If you choose the sub37 you can find a workaround for the workflow.
If you choose to he AK, you can’t really find a workaround for the moog sound.

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#3

Sub37 :slight_smile:

#4

Maybe a used A4 with a dedicated midi controller keyboard AND a used Moog Minitaur?

About the same money but getting, in my opinion, the best of two worlds.

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#5

Though, the Analog Keys(used) aren’t that much more expensive. Could just fork over another 1-150 and get a used AK.(I have no idea why people are selling them so cheap.)

There IS a guy in the US selling his A4 for 850!

If I were in a state to buy, I’d DEFINITELY pick up a second A4.

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#6

Sub37 all day. Really tough to compare a very complex poly synth with a knob per function mono synth but we all know that. Follow your gut I’d say

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#7

Well the work flow with sampeling the Sub37 will be slow, i think you know this, but probably you will use the OT more in the process which may lead to different results.

A4 means more tracks to use, and more slots of sample for different things, which may lead to more complexity.

Both are a good choice, and compliment each other well enough.

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#8

I like small 37 key synths as well. What about the OP1? It’s very portable and flexible, with the main drawback being the lack of velocity sensitivity on the keys, but you learn to live with it. Or going back to the Reface CS? Waldorf MicroQ? Virus Indigo? Or maybe keep it very simple and go for an old casio or yamaha?

#9

go with the heart :slight_smile:

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#10

Thanks, guys. I’m gonna go for the Sub37. The keyboard player in me wins over the utilitarian.

Though the Reface CS is lovely. With a proper patch memory solution and a sequencer, I might’ve gone for that instead. Still love the timbres I got out of it, when I had it.

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#11

I was about to chime in and say, Sub37, because you love that sound and you’d still want other percussion/misc sounds and be working with the OT anyway. Sound first, then workflow will emerge. :relaxed:

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#12

Very wise indeed.

#13

It’s a bit odd, though. I don’t think the Analog Keys has a bad workflow. It’s easy enough to learn and get good results from, and the sequencer is a treat. I don’t think features are far from reach when you’re sculpting a sound. A little extra press of a button here and there never hurt anybody, at least not in the world of electronic music.

And yet, I just don’t enjoy it. So I’m trying to tell myself it’s just a matter of putting in the time and learning it, and I don’t have this problem at all with the Octatrack, I love working with the Octatrack and its menus, structure and interface don’t bother me at all - on the contrary.

But I wonder, the closer you get to the actual raw process of making music - playing it, composing it - I wonder if you’re not getting closer to Elektron’s weak spots. It’s one thing to work with an instrument where you process samples, loops and sound. Another when you’re just treating the material as something you play, not sculpt.

Perhaps that’s why the Sub37 appeals to me so much. Reaching for the sound, as well as playing the sound, is the same motion, whereas with the Keys, it’s a stop motion thing when you reach for the sound.

#14

It’s a good thing there are different instruments out there, isn’t it? I actually have both the Keys and the Sub 37. While I love the sound and the interface of the Sub 37, I rarely use it. The Keys is my go to synth for coming up with ideas and sketches of compositions. And I also very much enjoy sound design on it.

But - enough about me! You have spoken well about your desires and needs. Do it. Yep. You know what you need to do! :smile_cat:

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#15

There’s the sketching up part I’m gonna miss the most, and I’m gonna miss it dearly. But as many already pointed out here, workflow will find a new way.

#16

Also, tough choices build character :blush:

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#17

Sounds like the classic struggle between delight factor and functional needs. You very well know that to reach for delight you always need to meet the functional objectives first or you’ll likely end up with emotional delta levels that will be hard to resolve.

And stop talking about the ridiculous Sub 37 (I’ve already put 2 in and out the Thomann shopping basket since this thread started).

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#18

Using the OT like a looper is very cool for sketching up…

similarly the 4 Play/Record machines on the Machinedrum are also fun this way

#19

If I were you, I would go for the MatrixBrute : great sounds and user interface. It has a powerful sequencer and arpegiator. And you can use it as a big monosynth, or as 2 two simpler monosynth (split mode) or as a paraphonic synth.
It is not as versatile as an the A4, but it is much more versatile than a sub37 and as fun/immediate to use. At then end, I think this would be a nice synth to compose music.

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#20

For what it’s worth, I’ve done the same with the Keys. I might look like a guy who’s got my shit together, but as you guys know, that’s just not the case.

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