I just wanted to say: It’s the customers right to send 2 weeks back without give any reason (if it’s not food, etc) where I live, and it’s the sellers right to NOT sell to you if he doesn’t want to.
Exactly because of that.
If I get an opened box from an online shop I have really no way at all to know if it had this journey 3 times. That’s why this right exists here in eu.
this is why it’s fun to buy from ProAudioStar in the states. it’s the opposite. “open box” items at a discount that are definitely brand new/not opened.
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A concept with future 
People tend to abuse that privilege which really sucks. “I’m going to buy a brand new synth, play it for a few days, and if I don’t like it, I’m going to send it back”. I think this is a pretty slimy thing to do. But then, it’s also pretty slimy to sell things that were returned as brand new. Not a fan of either.
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Me too.
Thats why I would like to buy local. If I can, and if i trust.
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Some years back I bought a DVD player (yes quite a few years back…). I went back to the shop and asked it is was ex-demo. They guaranteed me it wasn’t. So I asked them, do all new boxed players come with a free copy of Toy Story 2 in the machine? …and I gave them the disc. Right in front of other customers. Cue the err. uhm, not sure how that got in there bs… I shamed them and they gave me £50 back, which was a big chunk of what I shelled out in the first place. Some places just sometimes have some dishonest people there… I still try to support smaller business at every opportunity though, don’t want to let the bad apples spoil the barrel etc…
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it might not have been a lie… e…g perhaps, another customer has asked to see the unit… and had open the box for that reason - so it wasn’t a returned unit, or even a demo.
(I’ve see this in various stores… where they can’t have all models on display etc)
I do get the frustration though… the main ‘issue’ with an opened box, is you cannot know the reason for it… you dont know if its a demo, return units, etc.
but, its tricky for local retailers too…
as @plragde mentioned customers can these days return things for no reason, they can just test it… etc … and most customers won’t ‘accept’ restocking fees or such like.
its ok, for big companies like thomann, they can afford to take a hit on their margins, but not so much for local retailers.
Local big-box retailer had two Digitakts, both with the seals broken.
One had a LaCie power supply inside instead of the Elektron one. The other had a couple of projects from like September 2023 where somebody had recorded and sliced up some guitar licks.
The sales people were trying to sell both of them as new. Grudgingly, once a manager was there, they admitted that maybe the “LaCie power supply one” had been in a customer’s hands for a while.
Like others here I can see both sides to this. Having worked retail, I can imagine that salespeople actually cognitively/psychologically/grammatically/linguistically loosen their own internal definitions of “brand new” to describe items that they expect to work fine. It’s just too bad when they go too far or there’s no wiggle room to get a discount for open box / returns … or when the original contents aren’t even in the box anymore!
I also wonder if some of these stores still have policies where employees can take a unit home for a while and try it out and put it back in the store as new… or if they have to buy it at employee discount but then still have the return policy to bring it back into inventory with a full refund.
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Such common practice now… Anyone finding a retailer that doesn’t do this should give them some loyalty. Thomann are no better in my experience - I’ve been sent open-box as new twice with no apology when challenged, just ‘if you don’t want it, send it back’
Speaking generally, I still think it’s best to support local stores, particularly if you can try stuff out before buying, making the whole returns shenanigans unnecessary. Just be friendly but firm that you will only accept factory sealed stuff
If i was to buy something really expensive then i would want the Managers word not the assistant that it was A stock. If he lies his job could be on the line.
does this happen? who is walking into a retail store and demanding a new box be opened so they can look at it? nobody at a retailer ever thought of a “you break the seal, you bought it” policy? thats just kinda dumb business tbh
I haven’t read the entire thread so I may have missed it, but I think it is OK to call the music shop by name. This is not a situation where privacy and confidentiality is at stake. A shop is publicly trading organization, and as a benefit to the public (and in a way to the shop), it is good to inform of who is doing anything questionable.
I understand, and you clearly stated, that this is a rant. That said, I think it’s good to share these things.
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When this happens to me, I let them know and say I ordered a new item not an open box and ask for a price adjustment to reflect that it isn’t new or a return label.
I bought a brand new MC-101 from a big online shop in EU. When I got the package, it looked like the box was pretty much beaten up and it was fixed with adhesive tape. When I opened it, there was even a sheet of paper detailing what the previous owner issues were with this unit and why it was sent back. So they must have forgotten this when they sent it to me.
No wonder I was really mad with this and they told me they will send a “real” brand new unit this time. I said - no thank you, I just want my money back and that was it…
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There is just one big music shop in Vienna, there is no need to call out.
I just needed to vent out, because such things are giving me stomach ulcer if not let go.
If I call this shop by name it could be possible to get charges filed for defamation.
I wasted enough time.
First they wanted to sell me an 707 where the box was totally destroyed - they went and got me another one, box looking good, second was a polyend play that was opened and after inspecting the contents: the unit was bent like it was on a stove - didn’t buy it, I have a digitone here which was opened. I thought okay, no problem - after a while I noticed a hair in the display - no wonder it was sent back - I will fix it for myself, and now this, another box taped together, like: I don’t care, mofo!
All bought not online (or not at all…), in the shop, there. To support local retailers.
Meanwhile I’m calm and made my decisions. I will support local shops as good as I can, but not this one in particular. I had this there more than once, and it’s enough.
nah. it’s misleading and i’ll call out any store that does it.
even after brexit I can order pretty much anything from eu and return without any problems even on the 29th day. why not other known eu online brands? thomman for example?
…sure…but don’t cry, if there are simply no next corner local music stores left anymore…there, where u were able to touch and try out various music gear anytime u want it…
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Think about it this way, it may or may not be company policy to do this to consumers and it could be the staff managing the customer-facing aspect or who handled that last step taking chances.
Supporting local can’t really go wrong unless you enjoy big capital corporations telling/limiting what you can or cannot do. Consumer rights work differently depending on region so the experience may not be responded in similar fashion.
Nobody likes to be lied to, so I guess that would be the primary grievance rather than use of “adhesive tape” or an issue with product itself.
Chill man, make some stolper beats.
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I sit on both sides of the fence on this one.
As a consumer, I 100% would prefer to receive a brand new mint condition, untouched, sealed box. Tbh this is quite rare here, unless it’s a mass produced item with usb power.
As retail staff, I have become aware that a large portion of the product we receive (in this small isolated country) gets opened and resupplied with the correct power supply for our country. We generally would open the box again just to confirm the correct PSU is in the box before it leaves for a costumer. This isn’t the case is all countries, but I can imagine it happens all around the world
If the item is physically damaged in anyway I would 100% expect the item to get discounted and treated as a used unit.
There’s not really any excuse for poor repackaging if an item gets opened in store and put back in the box looking bad, but it doesn’t always mean that it’s second hand or bstock. The shop should be able to trace back to serial to see if it’s ever been sold before, hit them up to confirm its history if it looks like a second hand unit
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