A philosophical Tanzbar vs Tempest battle

The Lounge General Discussion
1

Friends,

I got myself a Tanzbar and a Tempest. Love them both. But in very different ways.

The Tempest is easy to use, sounds like nothing else and swings like grandpa when he was young. It looks great on the desk and has an immediacy when working with it, that makes creating sounds and sequences a joy. When you get something decent from it, that is. The Tempest is notorious for its rowdy and untamed nature, where shaping the mix within the box into something decent it just damn hard. You can browse through sounds, options and whatnot for hours and still come up with nothing, because there are so many ways you can fuck it up. But once you get something out from it, it’s truly unique and great.

The Tanzbar, on the other hand - it’s all of the above, but not difficult. I switch it on and it doesn’t really matter what I do, within minutes it just sounds awesome. Like tweaking a Moog synth. You can’t fail. It’s just a matter of how you use the results, not that it’s usable. Whereas the Tempest is good at offering you stuff that you know for sure you, or any other sane or insane person, will ever use.

But. In effort lies joy. So I hear.

To be honest, I much prefer the Tanzbar philosophy. A directed instrument that for its purpose just sounds awesome, and it’s up to you to make something worthy with it. While there’s cred and interesting results to be had in mastering something like the Tempest, there’s also a lot of time spent just figuring out what the hell you’ve been spending your time on this last hour, because you just took a wrong turn somewhere.

What’s your preference? Do you believe that instruments that require hard work has their own reward, or is a bypass of this design to be preferred, to get straight to a focused effort of honing something that sounds good straight from the box?

2

More and more I prefer the immediacy.
Although my current rig does not reflect it, I’d much rather have a one trick pony that does what it does really well, with all params on deck.

Although the RYTM is not quite that simple, I did end up leaving the Tempest for it, and it is much more immediate/simple than the Tempest.
However, after getting an A4, I REALLY miss the Tempest.
I feel like the Tempest is a nice in-between of complex, with a UI that lends itself to more fun than at least the A4.
Would love to have something like a Korg Monopoly mini module.

That said, I dont need all my gear to be that way.
I dig the OT and RYTM just the way they are.

I also have a SlimPhatty, LOVE the sound, hate the UI.
I keep telling myself to hold out for a Sub 37 desktop module.

3

What’s interesting with the Tempest, though, and I’m sure you know this as a previous owner and a potential owner again, is that while it’s really easy to work with, it’s not always easy to get it to where you want. I find that it’s all over the place with its lows and his and just trying to tame a sound where you can hear the potential, but just get it in shape, is frustrating. You could call it raw, and that’s charming in a way, but you could also call it unpolished.

The Tanzbar, or the Sub37 for that matter, seems to have injected mandatory sound design hygiene in their architecture, allowing you to switch between different kinds of awesome, but never really end up in UselessLand. Whereas with the Tempest, I constantly find myself being lost in sounds that just don’t take me anywhere.

I owned a Sub37, sold it eventually, and that has got to be the best sounding mono synth ever made, if you’re into that sound. Really, just switch it on and play and it’s like a transcendal experience.

“Hey. Why did you sell it? You even posted something on this forum about it.”

Good question. Glad you asked.

I don’t own a studio. Don’t do this as a pro, or even semi-pro (yet). I have a 40x120 desk on which I work. It’s a nice desk. Beatifully crafted in the south of Sweden, made of bjork and coated in white soap.

I’m also out of space when I put my Sub37 on that desk. So I simply didn’t have any room for it.

Which is why I, like you, really am looking forward to a desktop version - with the sequencer included.

4

I have been a die hard Tempest fan ever since I got mine back in December 2012. I’ve always had another more focused drum machine beside it, so I’ve always kind of treated it more like a synth with a fun sequencer and some handy percussion tools. I never really used it as my sole provider of drums. I’m also not particularly fond of “dat x0x sound”, which frankly I find boring and overused.

What I love is the Tempest’s capabilities as a synth, you can really go a long way with it’s 4 oscillators, 5 envelopes, 2 LFOs, huge mod matrix, etc. Couple that with the pressure/velocity sensitive AMAZING pads and scale mode and arpeggiator and you’ve got one creative beast. In many ways it’s superior to the A4. In fact if it had poly recording and legato, I’d probably sell my Analog Keys, the Tempest’s oscillators just sound better and it’s way more versatile.

But, especially since version 2.2, Maschine is getting more and more close to replacing my Tempest every day. Now that they’ve added scales, chords, drum synths, and arpeggios I really find it more and more difficult to resist the temptation to sell the Tempest and use the cash to buy a dedicated Mac to run Maschine. (so that I can have it always ready to go without having to hook up my laptop, launch the app, setup audio/midi routing, etc.)

I already have the Analog Rytm, Analog Keys, and Octatrack. I’ve gotten really comfortable with the “elektron way” and the biggest thing causing me to consider giving up the Tempest is the voice architecture and mixing frustrations. That coupled with the lack of legato and inability to record polyphony really has me scratching my head about it’s future.

I could see replacing it with a P12 module, although I really find myself leaning towards a Virus TI2 instead. With 16 parts vs the P12’s 2 parts, I think I could use it in conjunction with Maschine and achieve similar effect to what I get using Tempest, albeit not in a single stand-alone box I can throw on my coffee table.

I know if I sell the Tempest I am bound to regret it.

5

I know what you mean. Every time I’m on the fence about it, I sit down and play something and I’m thinking, “Fuck, I can never sell this. It’s too awesome.”

I do think the Tempest has a blueprint for the most complete and interesting instrument out there, if you go for the one box solution. I love the A4, and while it sounds great, it does sound vanilla analogue. There’s a bunch of modern analog synths that all sound kind of similar, smooth and professional and high quality, but without that distinct character. I count the A4 to that crowd, together with BSII and a few others. The Tempest, however, stands out with its rough and raw sound, like the Tanzbar with its super sharp envelopes and cut-through oscillators.

A Tempest MKII with a more balanced sound, or ways to trim it more (an eq would do, I guess), a proper delay and perhaps just two or three more voices, would make for a very complete experience. It’s almost there.

But we’ll never see that, for sure. DSI has perhaps not abandoned it, but I think the Tempest is too much of a detour for Dave Smith for him to iterate on it by himself. There’s too much going on in that machine, that’s part of Roger Linn’s contribution, for DSI to be able to develop the instrument. Dave Smith seems a hardcore keyboard or desktop synth kind of guy.

6

[quote="“andreasroman” date=“2015-06-21 17:57:42"”]

But we’ll never see that, for sure. DSI has perhaps not abandoned it, but I think the Tempest is too much of a detour for Dave Smith for him to iterate on it by himself. There’s too much going on in that machine, that’s part of Roger Linn’s contribution, for DSI to be able to develop the instrument. Dave Smith seems a hardcore keyboard or desktop synth kind of guy.
[/quote]

I wouldn’t neccesarily say it was too much of a detour - the synth engine is very much in line with DSI’s other gear that I have used. What I think is that DSI simply dropped the ball with the o/s and underestimated the difficulty in delivering something robust and refined.

I really enjoy my Tempest. Only had it a few months but as a synth I love it’s hands on approach. It does have its faults - the distortion and compression is poor, there are a few draw backs to “flow” (sequencer stopping for saving, copying, etc).and one or two other things but it’s a fantastic all in one groove machine.

I haven’t touched Maschine in a long time now but I think that it’s fair to compare it with the Tempest for those who like a Hybrid set up. I’ll be very interested to see what a Studio MkII offers. I’m sure we are some years away from this but can you imagine Maschine with am Aira System 1 sort of approach in that it can operate standalone with x synths/samples loaded into memory?! Now that would be cool. But I’m going off topic.

Back on track - immediacy is important for creativity but there are times when you just dont have the creative juices flowing and during those days, having something like a Tempest to tinker on is a great option.

7

I wonder if I’m the only person in the world that likes the Tempest’s compressor. I’ve always read comments from other people not liking it before I got mine, and was pleasantly surprised to find I thought it was quite useable. I do like compressors with character though. I think I might even prefer it over the RYTM’s compressor.

8

This! Why does it take so long… :smiley:

however, I also like the oldschool feel of current hardware devices.

I don’t have much to add to the topic, despite agreeing on the statement that the Tanzbär sounds always nice, no matter what settings you choose. Not much experience with the Tempest, looks nice but when I was trying it out it felt too complicated to me for immediate drum machine fun, and it seems to not be designed for immediate fun but rather subtractive-style tweaking and tweaking. Some people like that, others need something easier like, for instance, a Tanzbär. The Tanzbär, however, quickly reaches borders regarding its sound palette. You can’t even load a 909 Hat into the Tanzbär to ‘extend’ the sound palette :smiley:

9

[quote="“Prints” date=“2015-06-22 12:15:39"”]
I wonder if I’m the only person in the world that likes the Tempest’s compressor. I’ve always read comments from other people not liking it before I got mine, and was pleasantly surprised to find I thought it was quite useable. I do like compressors with character though. I think I might even prefer it over the RYTM’s compressor.
[/quote]

Maybe it’s user error with me. I get decent results out of it when I’m using the Tempest on its own but if I start using it with other gear I find I lose the Tempest’s sound too much when ramping the compressor up. Again, it’s probably me and how I’m using it but I feel I get better results with my Rytm.

I wish the distortion was a little better though. Maybe it’s my unit but I find it steps very noticeably at about the 1/4 turn position (ie. no distortion then a huge step to heavyish distortion). You can get some lovely sounds using the distortion but the lack of a smooth transition ruins it a little for me - that and the volume increase! This is all probably novice user issues more than anything though!!!

10

Remember that the Tanzbar and Tempest were just symbols of the point I made, the Tanzbar being immediate and limited (usually these two go together), the Tempest slow but almost endless.

The thing with instruments such as Tanzbar, and I agree that you quickly reach its borders sonically, is that you can focus more on your song and find interesting ways to bend the instrument that perhaps wasn’t intended, or at least not its primary purpose. I quite enjoy tweaking melodies on the Tanzbar from the toms and the congas, creating bouncing harmonies with a nice little sub bass going from either the low tom or the actual synth bass itself. You quickly get to this point and can enjoy just playing with that idea, whereas the Tempest throws you around and can send you on ghost chases for hours.

Both have their merits. Ghost chases are exciting, you never know what you’ll end up with. At the same time, I don’t think electronic music is excepted from the simple beauty of a song and something to back it up.

There’s the equivalent of Paul Simon and his guitar, just sitting down and get straight to the music, not bothering about synthesis. You hear in your head what you want to play, and you play it. I can often clearly hear in my head what I want to accomplish on my Tempest, but it can take me a long time to get there, if I even find my way. Whereas on the Tanzbar, knowing what it can do, if I hear it in my head, I’m there five minutes later and can dive deeper into the nuances of the song itself.

No right or wrong here. Just an interesting divider, considering that the kind of music we make here, contains more than any other genre tracks and albums complete with just strong rhythms and soundscapes. It would be called experimental in rock or pop, but in our field, it’s quite common and well liked.

But even though we’ve chosen synths and drum machines as our instruments, doesn’t mean we don’t yearn for something simple and beautiful in our music, too.

And if you need to spend hours tuning your guitar every time you get an idea, reaching for that goal is slightly more difficult than just playing a guitar. Or a Tanzbar.

11

It should be [drum machines] vs Tempest

Tempest is mislabeled. It’s called a drum machine which does not accurately describe what it is, or what it does. (even Roger Linn tried to express this in early product videos)

It’s more like :

“Really cool synth with a multi-track monophonic sequencer and sweet pads and some drum samples that’s definitely not a MPC or a TRx0x no matter how much you want it to be and yes it’s feature complete and no it won’t load samples”.

Yeah, that’s a mouthful, but it probably would have set more realistic expectations.

12

Good :+1:

I bought the Tempest intending to explore deep and uncharted waters for electro percussion. After a year and a half, I sold it. I loved its capabilities, but not its sound. After all the time and effort, it was not what I wanted in a drum machine.

13

I thought it was referred to as a “groove machine” rather than “drum machine”? In which case you’re even more limited to one box solutions to compare to.

The DSI sound was something I never got on with (former Mopho & Tetra user) but I really like the Tempest - especially through my AK’s FX section. Some of the pads you can come up with sound fabulous.

14

It could be happening! To a degree:

15

I fully agree with your assessment of the Tempest andreasroman. I had one, and sold it within a few months. It has a lot of depth, but not every direction you go will sound good, and if you have a destination in mind, forget it, I spent days trying to get some stuff that just wasn’t going to happen.

I don’t need 808 clones or other emulations, but I do need sounds with a particular retro flavour, and the Tempest just did not deliver the kicks and snares I wanted.

The Analog Rytm however does deliver (for me) - I like the feel of all the analog sounds, and it seems to take no time to find something I would be more than happy to use. If I get stuck, I can always add one of my favourite samples. Over all it’s now my all time favourite drum machine.

I got the Tempest because I am forever in search of a drum machine where I can also program decent bass-lines. For me rhythm has to be written with the bass as part of the whole, not separate from it. Old drum machines that had bass sounds (R8 etc.) were just crap in the synth department. I want a drum machine where I can use the bass, and not have to replace it with something else in my final mix. The Tempest did have this - Pro-One bass sounds were more than useable. Too bad the drums were just percussive synth sounds.

I think the idea of the “machines” in the Analog Rytm, are what make it more immediate. I have a few other DSI synths, so I can probably get those Tempest sounds out of those if I had enough time and Guinness.

16

[quote=““S. Righteous””]
I fully agree with your assessment of the Tempest andreasroman. I had one, and sold it within a few months. It has a lot of depth, but not every direction you go will sound good, and if you have a destination in mind, forget it, I spent days trying to get some stuff that just wasn’t going to happen.

I don’t need 808 clones or other emulations, but I do need sounds with a particular retro flavour, and the Tempest just did not deliver the kicks and snares I wanted.

The Analog Rytm however does deliver (for me) - I like the feel of all the analog sounds, and it seems to take no time to find something I would be more than happy to use. If I get stuck, I can always add one of my favourite samples. Over all it’s now my all time favourite drum machine.

I got the Tempest because I am forever in search of a drum machine where I can also program decent bass-lines. For me rhythm has to be written with the bass as part of the whole, not separate from it. Old drum machines that had bass sounds (R8 etc.) were just crap in the synth department. I want a drum machine where I can use the bass, and not have to replace it with something else in my final mix. The Tempest did have this - Pro-One bass sounds were more than useable. Too bad the drums were just percussive synth sounds.

I think the idea of the “machines” in the Analog Rytm, are what make it more immediate. I have a few other DSI synths, so I can probably get those Tempest sounds out of those if I had enough time and Guinness.
[/quote]

Yeah, the Tempest is a strange creature in that aspect. What makes me keep it is that once in a while, when you find that something, the Tempest just shines in a way I’ve yet to find in other synths. Those moments are rare, but so far worth it.
There’s always the argument that the musician is a very large part of the equation, and this is true. Yet, check out vids and soundcloud examples of some of the best Tempest acts out there, and most of it is experimental, weird, noisy and just not very nice to listen to.
So there’s not a ton of demos out there that convince of the Tempest’s ability to produce solid, swinging tricks. To make noise, percussion, interesting whatnots and all kinds of sounds, yes. But a decent, rock solid pumping track that just moves you in all kinds of ways - not so much.

17

The T is like some other machines I like MnM, Xpander etc,

Easy to use hard to master.

I know thru skill, time and effort I can create totally unique drum sounds, that no one else
has. Like the notes and rhythms they are MINE
The sounds, of course are not always apparent in a tune in a mix, but its how I
want it to be, to the N’th degree in detail and depth.

And that to me is the essence of using synthesizers to make sounds.

I am afterall a synthesist first.