A bunch of questions before I spend 1.2K

papernoise · 2014-05-26T07:39:24.000Z

Hello everybody, I’m new to the forums so let me introduce myself.
My name is Hannes, I make music in an experimental duo called kvsu and work as a graphic designer for the music industry (www.papernoise.net).

With kvsu I do a lot of live looping of guitar and circuit-bent instruments. Currently I’m using a EHX 2880 looper, a drum machine and an iPad to combine live looping, step sequencing and drum patterns.
I’m big lover of sampling, slicing and messing with found sounds and field recordings, so the Octatrack really looks like the piece of gear to have to me.
But as we all know it’s 1.2K Euro and it’s not an amount of money I’ll just spend to try and see if I like it.

I’ve watched a lot of videos and tutorials online which make me want the OT even more, but it’s kind of hard to really get into the details by just watching videos.
Well knowing that everybody uses a piece of kit like this i a different way, and requirements (especially to something like a looper) can be really different among musicians, I have a question to the more experienced OT users here on the forums:

I like to record loops on different channels, overdub a lot and the one thing I don’t like about the 2880 is that once I record the first track all the others need to be of the same length. What I would like is something where I can have different loop lengths.
I do like things to be in sync with a MIDI clock and I like to have loops quantized to that clock. So the lengths should be multiples or subdivisions of the clock (with the possibility of odd numbers, like having 4/4 on the master and 5/4 on the slaves or things like that)
Now the question is: will the OT work for me like that?

Thanks a lot to anybody who takes the time read this and give me a feedback!

analogback · 2014-05-26T08:23:58.000Z

hi

yes you can do that and a bag load more!

you may want to keep your 2880 for a little while while you learn to use the new octo but in the end it will replace it for sure. its the ultimate sampler/looper/playback/freakfest

of course if you are not so sure about the workflow you can pick up a used one… and pass it on if you don’t like it - unlikely scenario

i can send you a mint octatrack for $1300 aud plus shipping from Aust.

around $1000 Euro posted & insured. PM me if u want

Regards

William_WiLD · 2014-05-26T09:29:08.000Z

Did you see this one because you probably use a lot the pickup machine :

Also you can’t sampling directly on the media card so you have a limitation on the amount of sample time overdubbing you need to take care about that… to know if it suit your needs…

85,5m Flex Ram per project (share with the recorder)

By default the track recorder memory is used when sampling, meaning each track recorder can sample for about 16 seconds. The reserved track recorder memory can however be increased or decreased. It is even possible for the track recorders to sample directly to the Flex RAM memory.

Mystic38 · 2014-05-26T10:02:04.000Z

this thread…

http://www.elektronauts.com/t/octatrack-as-a-looper-questions/5258

this video…

and this manual…

http://www.elektron.se/sites/default/files/products/files/octatrack_manual_OS1.25.pdf

papernoise · 2014-05-26T10:07:55.000Z

@analogback: thanks a lot! I’ll think about it. the problem is, for a value of $1300 I’ll have to pay a lot of import taxes here in Italy, so it’s not really worth it. You’re actually right, It might be a good idea to keep the 2880 until I know the OT does what I want.

@William WilD: I usually record medium length loops and sometimes really short ones. The 2880 is cool because it can record pretty long loops. 16 should be enough, but I need to time my loops and see how long they are! Thanks for the advice

@Mystic38: thanks a lot for the links! I have looked at the manual, but it’s really a bit confusing… it’s like some pieces are missing, or is it my impression?

automating · 2014-05-26T12:16:35.000Z

Nothing is ‘missing’, but the manual is more like a reference that a than a start to finish set of instructions for using the OT.

papernoise · 2014-05-26T12:38:50.000Z

Well it was just a feeling, since I don’t have an OT yet, I can’t really tell!
Probably it’s given by the fact that it is meant to be a reference and not a step-by-step kind of manual.

t · 2014-05-26T12:47:25.000Z

I can guarantee that you can do what you want to do. Still, there’s no way to guarantee it will fit your workflow, but I have a strong suspicion it will.

The resale value of all Elektron gear is pretty good, so you can always sell it without too much trouble if it doesn’t work out for you.

papernoise · 2014-05-26T13:36:16.000Z

I’ve been slowly checking out some of the suggested links and so far I’m pretty positive. The only doubt is the time limit on the pickup machine (and in general on the recorders). I checked some of the live sets I’ve made and sometimes I have loops going for 25-30 seconds on slow pieces.
If everything else is awesome I suppose I can live also with just 16 secs.

the_dreammer · 2014-05-26T13:38:29.000Z

[quote=“t”]I can guarantee that you can do what you want to do. Still, there’s no way to guarantee it will fit your workflow, but I have a strong suspicion it will.

[quote]

I agree with this… a lot is possible, and you can get from A to B in multiple ways with multiple approaches.
pickup machines, oneshot recording, manual recording, triggered recording… and this go for playback as well.
pickup machines, oneshot triggering, manual triggering, triggered playback… and to make things even more impressive/confusing… the tracks itself can be setup a few ways… manual triggering of tracks, oneshot triggering of tracks… connected or separated from sequencer… with multiple clock divisions…

and to put icing on the cake… you can even choose to slice realtime… or sample your stuff and use sample-start-end manipulation… (I prefer the later, cause it enables you to play with tempo when your not recording and still keep everything in sync… it did not do that when I used realtime slicing…)

So I kid you not when I say : it took me 2 years, to come up with a live-realtime-sample-manipulation trick I could use in my music and I am totally happy with… (and in all fairness… I did not play with my octa everyday)

is it fun and versatile… hell yeah… can it be tricky to fit in your workflow… hell yeah…
is it worth it… I think so… but I did have to rethink my whole idea of “what I wanted out of a live playing situation” …

William_WiLD · 2014-05-26T13:43:03.000Z

AS i told you you can adjust your machine, you know less amount of RAM for Playback and More amount for Record mode… i’m sure you can 25-30second without any problems, i just told you that in case of but anyway 85,5mo shared is a large amount than what you think to do i think you can go to the octatrack… Also you can save on media card and free your ram… But you surely not do that in Live situation… so…

t · 2014-05-26T14:10:39.000Z

""papernoise"":

If everything else is awesome I suppose I can live also with just 16 secs.

You can get much more than that.

Patterns are limited to 64 steps, but you can choose “slower” time signatures per-track in “advance mode” which will give you a loop that’s up to 8 times longer than the standard length.

papernoise · 2014-05-26T14:34:53.000Z

@William WiLD : yes I got a bit confused at the beginning but I got it now. thanks a lot!

@t: 64 steps is quite a lot, and I guess totally sufficient for how I deal with these things. At least theoretically

Well the workflow thing is probably the main point.
My opinion is that a complex instrument (and the OT totally seems to fall into this category) will have a complex workflow.
Also an instrument that adapts too much to your workflow will end up offering too many options and hence become more complicated to use, so I think sometimes it’s better to have one clear way of how you perform a certain task, instead of 10 different options. Well that used to be the old Mac vs. Win discussion

Complex does not necessarily mean complicated, but it means that there will be a learning curve involved. It’s not something you switch on and start doing stuff with it.
I know that and I think it’s ok.
The important thing is that the interface and the main logic of how things work in the OT are consistent. Most problems I had with complex instruments (like certain software packages) is not the complexity, but the inconsistency of the navigation or interface. That’s what makes things a pain to use.

All of this is really subjective, so I cannot expect anybody to give me an answer. There’s only one way to find out. I need to get an OT, use it for a couple of months playing some actual gigs with (or at least using it during rehearsals) and see how and if it grows on me.

So in the meantime, thanks a lot for all the info and valuable advice!

Now I just need to sell some gear to get the budget together!

JES · 2014-05-28T14:34:08.000Z

I love my OT but don’t love it as a live looper for capturing my bass playing. Also, you’ll need a foot pedal. I’d say that it would augment the 2880 more than replace it.

t · 2014-05-28T16:01:54.000Z

The OT is complex in the sense that there are a lot of different workflows possible. The workflows themselves aren’t inherently complex, it’s just that you have to figure out what works for you.

Stuff certainly is consistent though.

Mystic38 · 2014-05-29T11:07:06.000Z

I certainly would not ditch the 2880 in favour of the OT as a looper… while the thread I referenced did seem to conclude that the OT should perform ok as a midi sync’d looper, I suspect a better setup would be for the 2880 to continue being the looper, and feeding audio to the OT for processing.

papernoise · 2014-05-30T11:59:53.000Z

I’ve decided to keep the 2880 for now and see how the OT works for live looping. Thanks a lot for the suggestions!

t · 2014-05-30T12:41:23.000Z

Let us know how it works out.

papernoise · 2014-05-30T17:03:33.000Z

I totally will!

GovernorSilver · 2014-06-02T18:33:04.000Z

""papernoise"":

I like to record loops on different channels, overdub a lot and the one thing I don’t like about the 2880 is that once I record the first track all the others need to be of the same length. What I would like is something where I can have different loop lengths.
I do like things to be in sync with a MIDI clock and I like to have loops quantized to that clock.

This could be a problem.

The Octatrack is a bit notorious for having issues syncing to external MIDI clock. It “likes” to be the MIDI clock master, not the slave.

OTOH, the Octatrack will let you have individual lengths per track. OTOH again, you said you like to overdub a lot, which means if you record on separate tracks just to get individual track lengths, you might hit the 8 track limit.

I think you can make the OT work with the rest of your rig, but you may have to adjust your workflow, like make it the MIDI clock master rather than the slave.

As others have said, consider keeping the 2880. Here’s an idea: Overdub whatever you like on that one. Then sample the 2880 audio into the Octatrack using a Flex machine. Keep in mind you have about 80MB of Flex machine RAM - so you could record up to 8 min. of audio at the 44.1 Khz setting, but if you use all 8 min, you won’t have any RAM left for doing other fun stuff with Flex machines.

Please read Merlin’s classic PDF on Octatrack sampling, Flex vs. Static machine, RAM usage, etc.: http://elektron-users.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=611&Itemid=30