>64 Step Recording + Sequencing

[mikedean]

I’ve read the other posts I can find on this, but I can’t seem to solve both parts of my problem. Just one or the other.

The Problem:
1) Record loops of more than 64 steps, but still multiples of the pattern length.

2) Later trigger several of these recordings simultaneously.

I can achieve #1 using pickup machines, but I can’t trigger multiple recordings simultaneously without frantic button mashing. I can achieve #2 using the Flex machines, but I can’t quantize recordings greater than 64 steps.

Does anyone have any solutions that allow me to achieve both #1 and #2? Perhaps is there a way to set the PROJECT>CONTROL>MEMORY>RESERVE LENGTH to an exact number of steps, not seconds? Is it possible to trigger recordings using the sequencer while a track is assigned to a pickup machine?

Any help is appreciated! Thanks!!

[musicmagus]

I am currently trying out setting the OT BPM to half that of the actual BPM. Then I just need to crank up the reserve length and my 4 bar loops (on the OT) are actually 8 bar loops. Obviously this will open a whole other can of worms.

Just thought I would throw that out there.

[sicijk]

Multiple recordings can be achieved continuosly with normal rec-trigs on the tracks you need. Otherwise, you can use one-shot rec-trig to allow yourself When to record What.

About Pattern multiples (#1)…unfortunatly there is not a specific way to obtain this.
You can try to stay at 120 bpm and see the Reserved Recording (in Memory menu) how many steps gives you…so you know how long is the Recording when the Recorder is set to RLEN=MAX.
BUT @120bpm!!

[mikedean]

Thanks for the replies. What I’ve ended up doing is mixing my use of Pickup machines and Flex machines depending on purpose.

With the Flex machines, 64 steps is the most you get if you want it to be a multiple of pattern length (assuming tempos that don’t fall perfectly in the RESERVE LENGTH like @sicijk suggests). It doesn’t solve the original problem, but I’ve acknowledged the limitations as part of my composition/performances process.

Loops of more than 64, but multiples of pattern length.

1. I’m using pickup machines with TRIG=ONE2 (for starting recordings before the full length of the RLEN setting), RLEN=MAX (for more than 64 step loops), QPL=PLEN (quantizes recording), QREC=PLEN (quantizes playback). The pattern can then be looped to whatever multiple of the pattern length as long as it is less than the RLEN. Loop using the Pickup Play/Stop command.

Triggering simultaneously later, after the Pickup machines have been stopped:
2) You have to select each track and use the Pickup Play/Stop command on each one before the pattern cycles. Unfortunately you can’t arm them all at once like you can when arming all sequencer-based one shot trigs. When the pattern loops, multiple loops play back simultaneously and in time with the grid.

The FCB1010 made this all a lot easier. Hope that’s helpful to other people out there.

[musicmagus]

Maybe I’m missing something but wouldn’t it be easier just to chain a couple of patterns?

I haven’t tried this, so happy if someone could correct me, but set:

Pattern 1 - Bank 1 with Track1 on Recorder 1
Pattern 2 - Bank 2 with Track 1 on Recorder 2

Set record trigs etc…

Then when selecting pattern just press one and then the other so they chain.

Then you end up with two consecutive recordings that will play back to back.

Maybe not what you want?

Yes!! Great method. And with the 8 record buffers you could split 'em up however you want.
2 layers of loops over 4 patterns or 4 layers of loops over 2 patterns etc.

[musicmagus]

[quote=“musicmagus”][quote=" Baddcr"]Maybe I’m missing something but wouldn’t it be easier just to chain a couple of patterns?

I haven’t tried this, so happy if someone could correct me, but set:

Pattern 1 - Bank 1 with Track1 on Recorder 1
Pattern 2 - Bank 2 with Track 1 on Recorder 2

Set record trigs etc…

Then when selecting pattern just press one and then the other so they chain.

Then you end up with two consecutive recordings that will play back to back.

Maybe not what you want?

Yes!! Great method. And with the 8 record buffers you could split 'em up however you want.
2 layers of loops over 4 patterns or 4 layers of loops over 2 patterns etc.[/quote]
Cool!
Have you tried this yet?
If it works I’ll be very happy because it means I’ve started ‘thinking Octatrack’ [/quote]
I haven’t tried it yet, but it will work!

[mikedean]

@Baddcr you’re right, I think that will achieve what I want. The only catch is I’m really trying to reduce the amount of hands-on button pushing I have to do during a performance. I loop while playing another instrument with both hands, using a foot controller. But that’s a great solution for other set-ups I might use. I’ll keep it in mind. Thanks!

[avantronica]

@Baddcr you’re right, I think that will achieve what I want. The only catch is I’m really trying to reduce the amount of hands-on button pushing I have to do during a performance. I loop while playing another instrument with both hands, using a foot controller. But that’s a great solution for other set-ups I might use. I’ll keep it in mind. Thanks!

i’m sure you can actually do it on one track by selecting the right tempo multipliers, master length and rec quantise lengths - just one play trig and one oneshot trig, record and forget, steps will be longer though, i.e. reduced plock ‘resolution’, but no issue w lfo

Edit - see next post !

[avantronica]

hmm, i thought it was (and maybe it can be) better than this, but it’s no bother to record in (and play back in sync) a 256 step loop on a track by setting the multiplier at 1/4 for that track, but because you have to extend the RLEN beyond 64 to Max, the buffer will continue to record beyond 256(in above example) even though playback has commenced - okay, my bad, it seems that when the recording is stopped and the unwelcomely longer sample is played (post recording) the time stretch will kill the benefit of having captured a longer loop - i presume people have been crying out for a setting of 128,256 in the RLEN from day one (for when the scale is factored down) - so maybe there’s a better workable solution, gonna search around older posts

edit - seems to be a bit of an issue here looking through the archives, seems odd that you can manually sample for 256 but not automatically using a trig ! unless there is a way (as opposed to a workaround)

[TaughtMe]

Baddcr…

Any luck with this?

For the type of music I make, this limitation is crippling and depressing. 64 steps is such a tiny slot to fill. I need to be able to recvord much longer chunks and have it play back in time. Any solutions!?

[TaughtMe]

Huge thanks! I really appreciate your time.

I eventually discovered the same method. For some time I thought Qrec didn’t work properly. I realized eventually that you can’t initiate or stop recording while grid recording mode is on.

So glad this works!

[TaughtMe]

[quote=“Baddcr”][quote=“musicmagus”][quote=" Baddcr"]Maybe I’m missing something but wouldn’t it be easier just to chain a couple of patterns?

I haven’t tried this, so happy if someone could correct me, but set:

Pattern 1 - Bank 1 with Track1 on Recorder 1
Pattern 2 - Bank 2 with Track 1 on Recorder 2

Set record trigs etc…

Then when selecting pattern just press one and then the other so they chain.

Then you end up with two consecutive recordings that will play back to back.

Maybe not what you want?

Yes!! Great method. And with the 8 record buffers you could split 'em up however you want.
2 layers of loops over 4 patterns or 4 layers of loops over 2 patterns etc.[/quote]
Cool!
Have you tried this yet?
If it works I’ll be very happy because it means I’ve started ‘thinking Octatrack’ [/quote]
I haven’t tried it yet, but it will work!
[/quote]
FWIW, I don’t think this works. I tried for an hour tonight and couldn’t get it going.
any one else have luck with this multiple bank approach?

[djenzyme]

Thanks guys, for this insightful thread! Ive been struggling with this all afternoon. I KNOW that recording can go beyond 64 steps because i have seen it mentioned before but actually implementing it is difficult…

or at least it was difficult until i found this thread!

[filosofem]

Right, I said it was easy and these instructions make it seem totally crazy, but I promise once you’ve done it it’s trivial

SETUP

Start with a new project. This is a complete set of instructions, you shouldn’t need to do anything else at all to get this to work:

Change the machine to FLEX on T1

Select the R1:RECORDING1 buffer for T1

Press FUNCTION > A/B and set:

INAB to A B

IN C/D to - Note: this process works exactly the same for inputs CD too!

RLEN to MAX

TRIG to ONE2 - this means you press once to start and a second time to stop.

LOOP to ON

Press FUNCTION > C/D and set:

FIN to 0.063

FIN to 0.063

AB to 127

QREC to PLEN

QPL to OFF

CD to 0

Setting QREC to PLEN means:

1. the recorder will start recording after the current pattern plays to the end

but also

2. the recorder will stop recording, on a second press, after the current pattern plays to the end.

What might not be obvious about this is that if the recording is MAX and the record length (allocated memory - let me know if you need more info on this) is changed in the settings, you can effectively record as many bars as you like (remember memory setings!! Default is about 16 seconds but you can increase this so you can record whole songs if you like) and always end recording quantised at the end of the pattern.

You could do the same thing by setting the PLEN to a number of beats - so if you wanted you could just set it to 4 and then you just have to activate recording in the bar before you want recording to start & same for stop. The important thing to note is that you are quantizing the start and stop of the recording, not the recording itself.

RECODING PROCESS

Hold T1 & press Rec A/B and recording starts after the current PLEN plays to the end.

Record as many bars as you like.

Hold T1 & press Rec A/B and recording stops after the current PLEN plays to the end.

If you like, you can double press T1 then FUNCTION + BANK then PLAYBACK to watch the file being recorded.

PLAYBACK

Press NO so that you’re back at the default screen.

Make sure T1 is still selected.

Press COPY to enter edit mode

Press FUNCTION and TRIG1 - this adds a oneshot trig that is armed and ready to play back your sample next time the pattern loops.

From that point forward you just need to ARM T1 to get the sample to play back from the beginning.

Note, the sample will continue to play indefinitely.

Interesting things happen with AMP > HOLD and AMP > REL when you have extra long loops like this - worth a look!

To answer the OP - it’s not possible to stop recording using a trig and get the same effect.

Have fun!!

Hello Baddcr, like many, I too find it confusing as to why you can’t stop recording using a trig or be it automate a stop. Do you have any thoughts as to why this isn’t possible?

Secondly, quantized start and end of pattern points and FIN and FOUT settings. What bearing do these have on each other?

By the way, thank you for posting an exact how to on sampling when multipliers are in use. Cause I wrote up a bug report thinking there was an issue with not being able to programme or automate a stop sampling trig, i.e. one shot trig sampling.

[sezare56]

Yeah it’s a pity that you can’t use Rec Trigs with One2 to stop rec.
You can record longer than 64 steps (4 bars max because RLEN doesn’t take count of scale multiply) with Qrec set to Pattern Length, scale per track. You can set rec length with Master Scale, up to 1024 steps…