Yes
Do you understand how frustrating it can be when you have a specific question, but rather than answer it, people misinform you or complain about something else instead? That’s the experience this thread has mostly offered me. One of my least favorite threads I’ve participated in on this forum ever. But at least I have my answer now.
When you get your DN and play around with Pattern Change messaging it will all make perfect sense. And if you have any interest in controlling a DN from a DT or vice versa you’ll see why it’s the only thing I bitch about these days in regards to my DT, because without it, in a large scale MIDI studio (16 MIDI ins/outs on 10 different synths, 3 samplers, 2 FX processors and a DAW) centered around Ableton (or any DAW), it makes experimenting with new ideas on the fly in any kind of organic way rather inaccessible. The “workaround” proposed by our friend AdamJay is not a workaround, it is merely a workflow, and one that inhibits creativity at that. And that, given Elektron’s penchant for pushing the cutting edge, I find:
most disappointing.
That’s fine. I’m not arguing with you. But if I have a specific question, I only really care about a specific answer. Some people thought that they answered my question properly, and I was asking the same question over and over. That was obviously not the case, considering I only finally got my answer recently.
I feel like most people here aren’t even reading anything; just venting, and ready to attack anything counter to their complaints.
I’m probably asking my question in the wrong thread. I got my answer so I’m basically done now. Please don’t feel I am trying to delegitimize or impede anyone’s complaints. Complain away; I’m not here for that.
Never felt like you were arguing w/ me, merely looking for an answer. I hope I have helped provide that in some small form. I agree with you that some of the information in this thread regarding the DT (and from what I gather, the DN) PC change behavior has been misleading, perhaps not everyone understands MIDI the way I do, as it is actually a spec older than even myself, and I consider myself “the oldest millenial you’ll ever meet”.
I wish we had a better spec. But it is what it is. And it’s a little frustrating knowing something is possible, but not having access to it. If I could code and flash the DT’s firmware myself, I would. In fact, I’d gladly pay anyone willing to rewrite the DT’s firmware more than the device’s cost itself to change this behavior-as I find it perfect in every other regard. Even my MIDI crashes stopped once I became diligent about turning LOCAL CONTROL off on my synths so as to eliminate feedback loops. (DT HATES MIDI FEEDBACK and crumbles when it happens)
But fuck it. I’ll just get an octatrack. The main reason I’ve held off is I find the “DJ” slider abhorrent
I can guarantee you that all synths made by these companies, if they support PC change, react immediately to these messages.
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Look at it my way, and a whole new world of creative options will open up to you.
“crippleware” sucks no? Can we agree on that? Like I said above I’ll get an OT or man, fuck it an MPC Live. I really don’t care for the touchscreen though.
I know everything you said but that still doesn’t cover this question. Only the external triggers into a device are MIDI. An A4 can be playing its own sequence synced with an OT and DAW using its internal sequencer so that has nothing to do with ordering of MIDI at the input. How does it know PC changes are coming and to not trigger its own sound that’s on beat 1? there must be some mechanism for this.
? because MIDI data is parsed before it is executed.
i think it’s fair to say that PC has been poorly implemented when patterns don’t stay in sync with their other machines.
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Let’s say you’re the A4 and you trigger your own sound at Beat 1.0000000 on the timer and the PC message hits the input at Beat 1.00000001 due to clock cycles…
Because PC is sent/received before the first note is played
before the internal first note that isn’t MIDI input? How would it even know there is a PC coming?
There must be an intentional delay of its own sequencing, however small, to wait for these messages.
How a MIDI hardware designer implements how it responds to MIDI messages is not about things not uhhh “werking” as you put it.
We can agree that Program Change ->Pattern Change is something the DT does no?
Ok, so then we can agree that Elektron implemented a behavior into the DT, coding discretely that “when a PC change is received, X happens”
This is an implementation and there is no other way to put it, friend.
No, that would just be you not comprehending the possibilities of your own expenditures. I have a room full of gear i’m 100% happy with. Thousands of dollars worth. If DT gave me this one little option, it’d be perfect in my eyes. And that is no small feat. Perfection.
because every MIDI message has a few bits that tell the parser what the command is, and then the parser orders them by priority before execution. just like a CPU parses instructions from applications on your computer.
yeah i agree it doesn’t work and it should… i was more just questioning how it’s typically implemented since there seems to be a bit of a timing paradox without artificial delays.
MIDI can transmit thousands of bytes per second. It can transimit 3000 or more PC change commands per second. that’s how
You’re still not getting my issue. A device that has its own sequencer would need to intentionally not execute its own sequencer data before parsing received data in the earliest clock cycles otherwise there’s no way to know there’s anything to order before it.
No, I definitely get it. It’s because the Elektron’s processor can do all this math faster than you can perceive it. And yes, exactly - upon receiving a PC message, the sequencer would say “whoa, change patterns before you play a note” all within a few microseconds. It’s kind of like when you turn on a light switch and the bulb appears to instantly turn on. Surely it takes time to heat the filament and fire off photons and surely it takes time for these photons to reach your eyes. It’s just imperceptible.
I give up, maybe someone else will bother to continue my line of thinking. Anyway yes the DT fails at this, let’s move on.