Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK (multitrack usb mixer)

[Neorej]

How are the onboard effects?

[tsutek]

Okay, so turns out the bx meter is not that useful when wanting steady RMS figures, so I matched the following by ear. This time the files change every 2 bars. Hope I got the levels better matched this time!

OB_vs_12MTK_try2.aiff

Bear in mind that both files are still summed with Ableton. This A/B is only for the recording side.

[tsutek]

The onboard fx are okay, nothing superb though. They might work well for certain material, but certainly not anyone’s go-to’s. Thankfully there is some scope between the algos!

[raizdbywolvz]

This is my first post here, I found this forum by searching for questions I have about the Soundcraft Signature 12 mtk i just purchased. I am using it in my home studio, and I am running Logic on Mac. I bought this mixer last week when I was on the phone with my sweetwater sales rep and explained him how I wanted to run my home studio setup due to my sweetwater rep’s recommendation of this mixer as he explained it has an ITB audio interface and I wanted an analogue style mixer so I could fatten up sounds with the mixers gain/trim/eq, then record it all back into logic analogue summed through the main master fader…So I set up my studio and I am testing everything out, I have a few sounds coming from logic onto USB channels 1/2 which correspond to channels 1/2 on the soundcraft, my jaw drops when I figure out that the gains on each channel of the mixer are rendered absolutely useless, apparently they are post USB? Says the manual. If I can’t use something as simple as the gains on a mixer, what good at all is this mixer ??

I have also read somewhere that the EQ’s are not able to be recorded into the DAW which mystifys me…

another issue I’m having, I set up a Audio Record track channel 13/14 (Master Fader) to test the audio coming back into the DAW from the mixer and the levels I’m seeing in logic are so extremely low and the volume coming from my monitors is extremely loud…the volume of my monitors is controlled by the main fader and the main fader also is supposed to set the record level into Logic…this Soundcraft mtk sig 12 mixer has no separate volume control or outs for studio monitors as my old Mackie 4 and 8 bus desks had.

So am I running this mixer absolutely incorrectly, what am I missing here regarding the problems im explaining? I’ve read this mixer was made not just for live sound but also home studio use. Please help me so I can decide to ship this thing back to sweetwater!!!

[PlumWrinkles]

I was sad when I bought the mtk 12 and realized I had to send it back. It’s always a bummer to get new gear and realize it didn’t do what you hoped it’d do.

The mtk allows you to run sounds into your computer but not through the board and then into your computer.

It taps the usb signal right at the input, I think just after the gain, but before anything cool happens. It is very limited in its interfacing/usb flow.

I sent it back and paid for the upgrade to the Allen and Heath qu pac, forgoing the analog EQ and faders, but I have not been disappointed or limited in any way since and it’s now been 3 months or so.

I got a sweet deal through Sweetwater where I have 36 months to pay for the qu pac without interest as long as I applied for their credit card and used that for the purchase. I’m paying $100/month and will have it paid for way before 36 months come around. I’m no financial coach, but it’s working for me.

I tried everything I could to make the mtk work for me but couldn’t because it doesn’t do it. There’s even a “usb” button/toggle pictured in the manual that isn’t even on the actual board. That was frustrating, too.

[Scot_Solida]

I’ve copied the following over from another post I made on the subject. You can indeed record all of your EQ and effects, pan, level, etc to the computer, but you’ll have to give up another channel/channels to do so and route via aux or groups. This is due to the lack of direct outs, an unfortunate exclusion that was doubtlessly made to cut costs.

Best gear to record hardware devices on separate tracks simultaneously

I bought the 22MTK as a temporary stand-in while I restore my old TAC Scorpion and I intended to use it only as a standalone mixer. However, I was quite pleased at the flexibility and sound quality of the board. My main interface is a MOTU 1248 AVB which has high-spec’ed converters and is wildly flexible and I have some nice outboard pres, dynamics and fx (Chandler TG2, Urei LA3A, Eventides). However, I have done tracks solely with the MTK - even the onboard pres - and have no qualms about including them side-by-side on the same album as songs produced with the higher-end stuff.

My only real complaints (other than the flimsy knobs) about the MTK:

1: No power switch - I use line conditioners, so don’t need a power switch - but it is a miserly omission.

2: No inserts - My biggest gripe about it. I deal with it by using the groups and bringing the processed signals back in on an unused channel. This is kind of a drag. 22 channels isn’t much in my studio, so I am not nuts about sacrificing those channels. However, you get what you pay for. If you aren’t going to be using a lot of outboard dynamics or EQs, it won’t be a problem for you.

3: Reduced signal level on the recorded tracks coming back out of the DAW over USB. This was a design choice in order to allow headroom for added EQ on mixdown. Okay, I get that - it is an entry level mixer and it can help prevent overloading. However, I wish this had been left up to the user to deal with. This is the complaint I hear voiced the most. However, I can live with it and it hasn’t prevented me from doing some excellent mixes on this little board. It helps to set up the gain so that tracking levels are as hot as possible without distorting and normalize the tracks once you’ve got 'em in the DAW (in other words, standard practice for good recordings regardless of what gear is used). One thing to note: you really gotta crank the gain pots with some microphones, but the pres are quiet and can handle it.

It’s a good buy, offering a lot of mixing and routing for the money. The effects are decent, the pres won’t let you down (even if they are nothing to write home about) and I’ve even used the built-in dbx limiters to tame some wayward spiky levels (I’m lookin’ at you, Machinedrum!). If you use plugins, you can run them as inserts - a nice bonus! Latency figures are excellent.

It’s not perfect and clearly built to a price point, but the trade-offs are well chosen. It is an analog board, so no automation, recall, or anything else that a good digital board like the Qu series can offer, but the price is hard to beat. In fact, it does the job so well that I have been procrastinating restoring the TAC since I got it!

Best gear to record hardware devices on separate tracks simultaneously

You can route the returns through groups or an aux and then patch their outputs to a stereo input.

Sai:

Best gear to record hardware devices on separate tracks simultaneously

Thanks for the great overview on the MTK. I have one effect pedal and I’m thinking about getting some Strymon etc effects so the missing return can turn out to be a problem.

Yeah, a lot of outboard almost demands the larger 22 MTK, in my opinion. I have yet to feel the lack of returns as a serious limitation and I have racks full of outboard. I tend to always use proper channels for returns no matter what mixer I am using, simply so I can have more sonic control over them. Also, as finalform said, the built-in effects are actually pretty good - if limited, and I have turned to them many times rather than patching in a better outboard unit.

finalform:
Edit: oh, the MTK has no channel inserts at all? Ok, that is a bit tricky.

Exactly. That’s my biggest complaint. For someone with little or no outboard, it’s likely to be a non-issue (and you can use plugins as inserts), but I get around it by sending a channel to a group and bringing it back in on another channel Oh, that’s another thing: the USB conversion is tapped right after the gain, so if you want to track with the board’s EQ, you have to do the same thing. However, I only use those EQs when mixing, for the most part.

Best gear to record hardware devices on separate tracks simultaneously

Also, the idea that trim should be set to as near the clipping point as possible in order to get decent SNR thru the AD conversion reeks of weak 90s digital audio lol. What is even the point of recording @ 24 bit if you cannot afford to have any headroom? It sounds like a return to the 16 bit depth ages and OCDing about peak meter reading again, dreading for intersample peaks etc

I think I may have been confusing here… the pres are quiet, so you can take advantage of the dynamics on offer - I just suggested the careful gain-leveling as a way to ensure that levels were good and loud to minimize the effect of the level reduction when that signal is piped back down USB to the mixer. I haven’t had any trouble with excess noise - no more than from any other modern analogue device. Certainly not 90s-era, thank goodness. What makes it feel a bit screwy is that the gain knobs have a weird curve. That isn’t to say that the gain is weak - but you might have to crank the knob more than you’d expect to get the levels you want. Rest assured, though, there is plenty of gain for anything you throw at it. I used a ribbon mic to track a mountain dulcimer - a very delicate, quiet instrument - and was able to capture the sound very nicely with the MTK’s pre-amp.

[hydra065]

I bought this desk with the view of having the luxury of a mixer / audio interface combo. I so regret not going down my initial plan of the 18 8 focus rite interface! As Raizedbywolvz states: found the only way to get descent recording output is by putting the gain knob at max to get. I am no ways pleased about this - now considering bouncing the summed output to a basic 2 channel interface when recording.

As a mixer - pretty sweet piece of kit . As audio interface - not so sure !

[tsutek]

What peak levels are you getting when recording with the 12MTK? -18dBFS peaks are perfectly acceptable in 24bit IME. I always gainstage the PFL to around 0 on the Hw meters and so far have been getting acceptable results.

I am having no regrets myself concerning the unit. For the price, it’s still a good piece of kit. I only wish the form factor was a lil smaller (like, are the side panels really necessary?). I am even finding use for the onboard fx now, which I wasn’t sure about initially.

[brunatius]

At this time I’m not sure you can beat a xr18 as a mixer and soundcard combo

[GovernorSilver]

Nice to see some positive feedback on this mixer (tsutek, Scot Solida) after the early negative reviews turned me off.

I’ve been vacillating between this and the K-Mix as a mixer to get me more aux send busses (current mixer - a Mackie - has only 1) and integrate iPad/IOS audio with hardware audio.

XR-18 not having a hardware volume knob on the main out is worrisome. When I play/rehearse with bands, I need quick, reliable control over my overall level - I don’t trust touchscreens for that.

[traxx.space]

welp, i just pulled the trigger on an mtk 22 on ebay. should be here early next week. i have a cheap, surface pro 4 knock-off tablet. i’m hoping it can run reaper and record 24 tracks at a time. i’d like something small and portable so i’m hoping this fits the bill.

[traxx.space]

so a question to those who use the mtk now…

i’d like to hook a bunch of stuff up and record the stereo mix live while jamming with the internal fx to a portable recorder (through the headphone jack probably) AND record the tracks, dry to a DAW. can i do that at the same time? or does it force me to route the audio through the DAW and back into the mixer (latency fears…) to then record the stereo mix? also, i assume it records the stereo mix as channels 23/24 based on what i’ve read. and thats all post fader from everythign going to the l/r group, right?

[PlumWrinkles]

I have a K-mix and there are a couple of things I can tell ya:

You should definitely have a computer that is a bit newer than mine. I’m on a late 2011 MBP 2.2 GHz Intel Core i7 running yosemite, and I have issues with the audio. It will crackle out every 5-15 minutes and I have to restart it to fix it.

It works perfect when stand-alone (no usb) and I love having it with me wherever I go. It’s when I try to interface with it that I have the troubles.

I have communicated a whole bunch with KMI about it, and they assure me the crackle issues will go away if I update to Sierra, so I haven’t sold it yet because I plan to do that one of these days.

I think it is resolved in El Capitan as well, but it’s not very good with yosemite and my computer.

So right now my K-mix is only being used to run the midi expander so I can slave ableton to my OT (master)/ rytm (thru).

I can probably answer more questions if you’ve got 'em.

[tsutek]

This is probably related to the OS-wide USB driver change that made many USB devices inoperable with certain versions of OSX. Updating to sierra could therefore fix your issues. Therefore I wouldn’t seel the kmix yet if you like it otherwise.

[tsutek]

You can record all the channels pre-fader and pre-eq via the USB, and connect the 2-track recorder to either aux sends, headphone out or the group 1-2 outs.

[traxx.space]

so from what i’ve read, the usb out to the DAW is ‘always on’, right? so it can record the dry tracks while the master 23/24 records the full mix with fx?

[tsutek]

yes, that is correct. There is no way to switch off the USB inputs.

[traxx.space]

excellent! i can’t wait to get recording with it. i hope to do a bunch of songs in february for the rpm challenge.

[tsutek]

Remember to make some test recordings first to optimize your buffers

Hope you’ll like it.

[traxx.space]

well, i’m not too worried about latency since the DAW part will mostly be for preserving the tracks for editing later.