Sound Quality / Characteristics: Digitone vs. Volca FM

A new or fresher way of thinking doesn’t require new genres of music. Only an open mind :wink: On the other hand I’ve never understood chasing a retro or vintage sound. Even when I was mostly a guitar player I didn’t get people lusting over 30 year old guitars.

OT: if you’re looking for some fm sounds similar to the dx7 the volca fm is adequate. People generally say its thin but I’ve found in lower octaves on poly mode with a bit of chorus, strings and pads sound quite nice on it.

If you like the sound of the Volca FM I say go for it. I love the Volca series, so much bang for the buck.

I agree with the comments that the Volca FM can sound thin, but like jefones pointed out, the lower octaves sound thick. I was actually surprised by how full the lower octaves sound (can make some nice bass).

I also get great results with layering. Make a patch/sound, sample it, then layer the same sound, but an octave lower & sometimes even add another layer, an octave higher. I like to do this with sequences too, make a patch & sequence, sample it, then make a new patch (or use same patch in a different octave), but keep the sequence to layer with the other.

Layering made a huge difference for me, but I am still learning fm synthesis, so not great at creating my own patches yet.

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recently watched a few videos of ALM Akemie’s Taiko (module). that thing sounds really visceral and ‘hot’ – as if it could cut through any mix. of course, the DN provides the full package (sequencer, envelopes, filter, p-locks, voice count etc.), so it’s tough to make a comparison.

I’ve used lots of FM synths, they all have a place and to an extent unique character just as analogue does - a MS10 and SH-101 are both 1 vco, 1 LFO, 1 envelope analog, both vintage but sound quite different. I like the sound of 2op (nanoloop) 4 op, and 6op FM, even ‘easy FM’ like Yamaha did with the TQ5/YS100/YS200 is very useful to me.

The Digitone can make rough enough sounds even without resorting to dirtying it up with either external fx or bit rate reduction IMHO, and for lo-fi it is easy enough to replicate 12bit or 8bit DAC using these methods.

The (pre-DAC) sound of something like a DX100/FB01 though isn’t going to be easy to nail with any modern FM synth though because they were computing the waves at a much lower speed and resolution so the sine waves have a certain amount of background ‘noise’ aliasing before they even hit the DAC, in the case of a modulator for example the modulation is primarily going to be the sine, but also some noise bleed which I think results in the organic nature of the resulting sounds. I could be wrong though.

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Just to clarify, I’m not saying that I think the sound and feel of more retro FM synths and chips is ‘bad’, they have their place just like darenager wrote. I personally love the OPL3 (I have a framed chip at home), TX81Z, FB01 and FS1r. But, the Digitone is none of those instruments, it’s its own. It can do things that those cannot. (and of course vice versa)

At Elektron, there is a desire to create new instruments that, for example, in some way reimagine an existing concept. I certainly share this vision, and think it’s very exciting that the Digitone is pretty unique in its palette and operation.

I think the notion of making things that more and more become swiss army knives regardless of their field is a bit boring in a sense. Clear definiton, concept and limitations is what makes an instrument unique and interesting. Consider something like the SH-101 which is an absolutely iconic piece of gear. It cannot sound like a Moog, it doesn’t do a huge array of sounds, it has very strict limitations. What it does have however is a very well designed layout, functionality and sound. It’s designed in a way that makes it an incredible hands-on instrument which rarely sounds bad, if at all.

Make Noise 0-coast is another great piece of gear that completely does away with a lot of conventionality for a fresh concept and sound. It’s stunning and already a legendary piece of equipment.

These types of instruments are so interesting to me because they do what they do. Both the 0-coast and SH-101 are very defined instruments, and that’s why I think they both will go down in history as iconic synthesizers.

So, no I don’t see us implementing a “lo-fi” mode on the Digitone, at least not anytime soon. One of its core strengths and integral to its sound is the high fidelity and great sound sculpting that is possible when obstacles like aliasing and quantization, zipper, etc noise are removed.

Plus, an FB01 is super cheap and sounds wonderful, buy one and sequence it with your Digitone. :slight_smile:

Sorry for the long post, the subject just spurred my mind.

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3 posts were merged into an existing topic: What gear would you like to see elektron do next?

Had a volca FM, liked it, learned a lot about FM, made some cool sounds with it. Sold it and bought a Digitone. I really like the Digitone, I’ve made some really cool sounds with it, not selling it (at least, not at the minute).
I’ve made some really crunchy stuff with the Digitone and some very lush stuff on the volca (I’ve also made some real turds with both). I have found that a £50 bit crusher pedal used (sparingly) as a send effect gives the Digitone that lo-fi 80’s digital aliasing thing, without destroying the hi-fidelity signal from the Digitone. Best of both worlds.

I think I still want a dx7 though…

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I personally am glad for this. I dislike the “FM means DX7” mindset. I get why it’s prevalent, but it’s frustrated me. (And as someone who HATED the ubiquitous DX7 Electric Piano sound in 80’s pop music, I thus hated FM synthesis and the DX7 for years out of ignorance).

I’ve only done one major recording with the Digitone, but its clarity and mix really is something great. The song I used it on ended up being one of the clearest, cleanest sounding things I’ve ever made, even though it had quite a bit going on. I had almost given up on Digitone a few times this year but now it’s really finding its place in my lineup after I heard it in the mix and realized nothing else I have was sounding like that.

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@jshell You’re describing my experience as well.
One other thing is that I was really disliking the Volca FM editing (while totally digging the sound).
Digitone UX has been extremely pleasant, DN is surely one of the most straightforward FM synths !

Yeah. I ended up using Dexed as an editor, and transferring patches over to the Volca, but then it kind of has to be plugged into the Mac all the time, which for me is not the point of using hardware (I might as well just use Dexed). I also got tired of the limited polyphony, so sold mine. I’m kind of missing FM hardware though, so eyeing up a Digitone or Reface…

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This has been the main reason for me to buy Elektron gear since the MD: a dedication to offer something different & new, as opposed to jumping on the “vintage train” people seem to love so much. Digitone is no exception, I’m super glad to be able to navigate the seas of FM with a seasoned captain (and his subtractive crew) who makes sure we only hit those nice waves. On the other hand, I found the waters I roamed with the Volca FM someone lent me to be somewhat treacherous at times but as always, I would’ve probably found that entertaining if that is what I was after.
Ain’t no good or bad, there’s just personal preference.

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But when you go at Digitone specifications Hardware, you can see
" - 48 kHz, 24-bit D/A and A/D converters"

And about sound quality, Digitone is troubling my mind because it clicks or pop whatever on some presets especially on bass notes.
Yeah, cool Hardware and sounds nice but Elektron have to fix some bug because this machine cost more 700€ and it’s unacceptable compared machines who cost same or less.

Yes, the conversion is 48kHz, 24-bit - but the internal resolution is 96kHz, 32-bit. There is a big difference, and being able to run DSP algorithms at internally higher resolutions have great benefits to the end quality. (e.g huge headroom internally for processing, running at fast rates and ‘free’ anti-aliasing when downsampling to 48kHz. It would not sound anywhere as pristine if the engine itself ran at 48/24)

As for your clicking, I was forwarded the support case (since I know the sound engine well) and will look into it ASAP - the clicks are most likely not bugs, and I will help you in how to avoid them. Sorry for taking so long to get to it, I don’t do support anymore and have a lot of things on my table - but I’ll try to answer it tonight.

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@ThomasMvller and you’ve now got a message with some aid for your clicks. :cowboy_hat_face:

As for the sound engine - it rocks! But some things are very hard to deal with, and this was a worst case scenario. A very low Hz note with few harmonics in a steady repeating pattern with infinite sustain. Doesn’t get much worse than that for the poor buffers. You’re basically directly triggering a discontinuity in a continuous signal, which is what is causing clicking.

Luckily you can get around it in two quite different ways.

Either:

a) Set Amp Env Reset to OFF, and Operator Phase Reset to OFF for all.

or (if you want your timbre to be consistent per trig)

b) Assuming that we are triggering this tone each quarter note, set the note length to 3.88, landing on just before a whole quarter note and change the Amp envelope Release time to a low value (depends on the sounds content, but I’m getting good results with 5 - 13)

This will fade out the sound rapidly just before hitting the next note, which will remove the click and cause as little silence in the output as possible. Note that if you’re outputting a pure sinewave at very low Hz, some clicking will probably remain unless it is completely silent before the transition.

(But if you’re going for the sinewave approach you should use option a)

The reason as to why is that most (all??) hardware deals with things on a frame size basis as oppose to most DAWs and plugins that operate on a per sample basis. But that’s a bit besides the point, this can happen in any system - for example have a look at this visual representation of what is happening with the signal:

Ouch!

That’s not very nice. What we want to do instead is:

image

At the transition, ensuring that the quite brutal discontinuity - in this case a transition from non-zero to zero - doesn’t occur.

So as you can see, it’s not strange that it’s clicking. Most (good) plugins interpolate between samples (in envelopes for example) often avoiding issues such as these, but regardless the scenario is tough to handle.

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Often you don’t want that, but sometimes you do want that because the clicking can sound good and work very well rhythmically.

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Well, of course - but it wouldn’t be very helpful in this case :smiley:

Ryoji Ikeda, anyone? Yes please!

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Professor Mattisson is currently holding office hours.

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Why would you want infinite decay on sine wave bass?
That’s probably not a good idea in any context where you’re playing notes repeatedly (as opposed to a drone).

Finally! It works !

Thank you for your advice and specifications, I understood that DN is more complex and specific than appear.

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Awesome! Happy to oblige. Have mercy on that sub bass now. :wink:

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