Sequencer Comparison: Monomachine & Octatrack

[PeterHanes]

[quote=“psicolor”]Also very important: The MnM sends CCs before the note-On event, the OT sends CCs after the note-on event. So if you p-lock a CC with the OT, you’ll always hear glitches. Due to this issue, which i call “cc-late-bug”, some parameters, e.g. attack time, are impossible to automate with the OT.

wow. this is a massive oversight. have elektron confirmed this is a bug that they will fix ?

it seems like something that should be fixed by now. I hope it is not an intentional decision.[/quote]

It surely is intentional. Therefore it’s unlikely to be changed.

As psicolor wrote, it certainly makes it difficult to speedily automate some parameters like attack time, but I disagree with the statement “you’ll always hear glitches” as written. In many likely use cases, there won’t be any problem.

[BloopityDoopity]

It surely is intentional.

why would they intend this ? especially seeing as they got it right in the MnM ?

[LyingDalai]

Sending CC before the note starts is not perfect either : if my note is ending and just before the next note occurs I raise the level, I should expect some strange things as well, am I right ?

Although it seems that artefacts on a dying note should hardly be noticed, while they must have some impact on the first microsecs of a brand new note.
So I would say BloopityDoopity is right saying this was implemented the good way on MM.

What’s your thoughts about this ?

[moskwa96]

I think the Glitch problem in Dalai example is less painful because it issues on less number of cases. Sending CC after the note, issues every note (but ofcourse not always we can hear the glitch).

Additionally we can smooth the Dalai problem by using trigless trigs, one step (or more) before the note step.

Between two bads, i think the MM way is better.

PS: I’m curious what solution is applied in MD.

[BloopityDoopity]

absolutely the MnM way is optimal … the circumstances where it is no good are far, far fewer than the Octatrack method which is, imo, clearly the ‘wrong’ way to go about it … the workarounds are even more of a problem than the bug itself, imo.

anyway, here’s another thread about it from a few months back. just bumped by another user having the same problem …

Octatrack midi cc delay( send priority )

Hello everyone, i having an issue with midi CC send to external synth, here is the deal: The OT connected to waldorf blofeld via midi out. a single midi pattern with 4 note trigs, on a second trig i created a parameter lock with envelope decay set to 0, on a third trig – lock with default decay value: º - - - º - - - - - - - ∞ - - - ∞ - - - ∞ - - - ∞ - - - and what happened is that the second trig playing with the default decay value( but should play with 0 ), and the third – with…

[license]

Sending CC before the note starts is not perfect either : if my note is ending and just before the next note occurs I raise the level, I should expect some strange things as well, am I right ?

Although it seems that artefacts on a dying note should hardly be noticed, while they must have some impact on the first microsecs of a brand new note.
So I would say BloopityDoopity is right saying this was implemented the good way on MM.

What’s your thoughts about this ?

CC first is definitely preferable. You will notice it more if a note is triggered before all its parameters are set up than if you set up the parameters first and then trigger the note. Why? 2 big reasons:

• Transients.
• There’s a good chance the previous note is nearly, if not completely, inaudible at that point.

[license]

I get the feeling they had to make some unconventional choices with MIDI implementation to make sure the more critical processes (e.g. streaming from card) had enough CPU. That doesn’t totally explain why they chose to do notes first instead of CCs, but I’d guess some of the same code is used for MIDI reception as transmission, and there’s definitely some funkiness with parameter reception, at least in the case of sample start position.

[avantronica]

What’s your thoughts about this ?

My thoughts are ‘this is hugely inconvenient’ it’s just way too glitchy in my experience with the CC happening immediately after the Note On

---

Has anyone had any word back on this … is it possibly different from their old machine for a reason, how does the DT compare

I’d be keen to hear if this can be reviewed

If it was about prioritising Note timing, surely the CCs could be sent a few ms early

I’m also wondering if this ties into the issue with slice playback

I wonder if @sezare56 has any thoughts on why the ordering would be this way

The problem I see e.g. if you p-locked a CC affecting OSC pitch tuning for one note … it affects that note and the following one as follows, they both suffer an instantaneous and very noticeable glissando at the attack … ugh !!

I’d take a note-on a ms late in preference to this any day - so we need to find out why it is set up like this - are there other chats on this with more insights ?

[sezare56]

That’s an honor but I didn’t follow that topic and don’t really understand what’s the question.
CC before or after Note ?
For slices or in general ?
For MM ?

[avantronica]

CC before or after Note ?

Just this part

CCs set the sound up - it’s a problem if they happen after the note is played imho - the question is why might it be this way - is it possibly oversight or maybe driven by timing - just want some opinions before asking unless they have fed back info before

[sezare56]

I made different test before with OT’s midi tracks or midi keyboard with Even Processor Plus, mapping notes to CC Pitch, Rate, Comb Filter Freq, Slices…to OT, A4. (Blofeld with PChange just before note, working like a charm, like a drum kit controlled by OT)

It always worked better with CC before, from what I remember. As you know, it’s special with slices latency. For Pitch, quick slide effect if after for example.

I used Pitch control of A4’s oscillators, to make it 4x2 paraphonic, sending always the same A4 note (A4, not Analog Four ) with CC before notes, with success, but I needed Midipal + EPP.

[Open_Mike]

Check out this next level OT midi lfo designer + arp trick:

Octatrack only as a MIDI sequencer?

If you enjoy stacking the arp sequencer with the note sequencer and enjoy generative or complex melodies, you might enjoy my favorite OT MIDI trick: Create a step sequence on the LFO designer (bonus: you can edit multiple trigs at once in this mode like you can on the AR, as well as invert and randomize the whole sequence) Route that designed LFO to Arp Transposition (NB: the arp doesn't need to be on) on any MIDI track as LFO1, in SYNC TRIG mode at a speed that totals to 128 (e.g. 8x multipl…

(And this guy makes custom waveforms from the audio ones:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0AIivhb5kU)

[avantronica]

here’s an example

it’s two high notes followed by two low notes and it should repeat identically
first two highs are accomplished by changing midi note (will sound like a MNM sequenced it probs)
second two highs are accomplished by CCing the OSC pitch instead (sounds identical on note 6 as CC pre established on step before) but note five the first change up and note 7 the first note a step after the change down from the CC high are suffering from horrible glissando because the CC follows the note on - this is for a simple G1 Nord Mod patch and it handles midi like a boss … yeuch !!

[LyingDalai]

this guy makes custom waveforms from the audio ones

You’re referring to the wizard also known as @Veets
I really enjoy watching these videos

[Open_Mike]

asking

I searched the forum and only found speculation that it has to do with notes having the timing priority…
I didn’t see anything from the Elektron reps, and I searched for key words with their names…
I say it never hurts to ask…

[Anfim]

Yes, very annoying. I wonder if there’s a chance this will every be fixed? Out of curiosity, does the DT work like the MM or the OT in this regard?

[joemack]

I’m looking at getting a Monomachine. I think the greatest feature is the sequencer. However I have an octatrack already. Are there sequencing features only available on the monomachine that cant be recreated by an octatrack and external synths via midi?

[fmw]

just the arpeggiator I think

[mokomo]

The main advantages I am aware of are, compared to the OT, the MNM can

1. sequence PC messages per step
2. send CC changes before note.

OT has its own other advantages over the MNM however.

[sezare56]

Sequencer Comparison: Monomachine & Octatrack

hi I use the Octatrack to sequence my Virus TI and was hoping to replace the Octatrack with a Monomachine. There is something about the bass sound on the Monomachine I love, it has that dark dubby vibe.