RYTM mk2 so un-dynamic - is the compressor an essential part of the sound?

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#1

New RYTM owner here, returning to the Elektron world after some years away. I just got a RYTM mk2 yesterday.

I’m surprised at how un-dynamic the machine is! I’ve made analog drum sounds for a long time with monosynths, modulars, and I also was one of the first Tempest owners and contributed a ton of knowledge and sounds to that community. I know all about drum synthesis and all sorts of programming and design tricks to make good sounds.

The RYTM’s machines do not seem dynamic in the slightest - there’s really no snap, thump, thwack, thump, no feeling of “moving air” no matter what you do with the parameters. There’s plenty of bass, plenty of cool sonic stuff going on, but it really just sounds SO flat to me that I’m surprised - put it next to even something like a Volca Beats or a simple SH-101 doing filter zaps and it’s world of difference.

BUT WAIT - I discovered the master compressor. THERE’S the dynamics! Suddenly that lifeless snare is snapping and cracking where before it sounded dull and thuddy!

Do you consider the compressor to be an essential component of the RYTM’s sound instead of an optional effect? I have plenty of HW compressors and know them well. This compressor seems to be almost more of a transient designer and an essential component of this thing instead of an option if you want to “compress” the thing. I’m comfortable working that concept into my workflow instead of thinking of it as compression, even. Have you found this to be true?

3 Likes
Managing excess bass / low end from Rytm Mk2
#2

I hear what you’re saying, and although I do use the master compressor a lot to get the effect you mentioned, I have two thoughts:

One: the preset patches (accessed by double tapping the TRK button) are really hard hitting compared to the default blank sound which loads when you clear a track sound. There’s a lot to be said for the sound design, cause I think some of those presets hit VERY hard in their own way…You are right, it’s not like sampling zaps from a 101 or anything, but the power is to ability to quickly and powerfully automate ANY aspect of the analog voice…that’s where the dynamism lies.

Two: when playing the Rytm over a large soundsystem, I realized, ohhhh, this sounds JUST right. Everybody else who was playing live was making everyone’s ears bleed with their upper-midrange heavy snares and stuff and my Rytm sounded like butter… :wink:

8 Likes
#3

+1 on proper sound system or even bigger monitors. I run Genelec 8320s (small, I think 4”) and the bass that comes out of them is impressive, but the AR was a bit underwhelming on them.

Went to a friend’s studio with bigger monitors and a sub and everything just opened up. It was perfect. The analogness fatness and warmth came right through vs other digital gear that sounded flat. Didn’t beed any EQ. This was on the raw analog machine side and no paired up samples.

3 Likes
#4

I would say yes, the compressor makes a big big difference for the dynamics in it!

#5

I am not sure what kind of dynamisn you mean here exactly… but some things you can try

  • using exponential oneshot LFOs as envelopes (target volume, filter cutoff, overdive)

  • lowering a synth sound engines 8th parameter (level is it?) and compensating gain loss with overdrive, volume or both

One very easy way to know if the rytm sound is inherently lacking dynamism for you is to run familiar drum samples through the voices at sample level at or below 100. If those sound lifeless as well you know something is off…

I also very much recommend diving deep with the velocity mod matrix and/or accents. Set accent level high and default velocity low to increase contrast between accented an non-accented hits.

I personally find that learning sound design on the rytm is a neverending journey… you get better and better at it over time.

9 Likes
#6

Whoa! I never would’ve thought of this! You’re essentially changing the gain structure and starving the filter section…very interesting!

#7

To the OP: I would love to know more about how you set up that compressor in order to love it that much, and what sounds were you compressing, how were those sounds design, in order to understand what the compressor is actually doing in that scenario

a bit of context for my question: im moving air with the Rytm (mk1), I can make it kick hard, and I’m not using the compressor, never, so it would be interesting to hear a completely different take on the same machine

2 Likes
#8

IMO the compressor is really bad (as well as all the other fx including the buggy delay) and I just use the individual outputs and decent software compressors to get good sound.
Probably going to sell the Rytm soon since the chances of the issues I have with it being sorted out are slim to none…

#9

how is the delay buggy?

5 Likes
#10

using exponential oneshot LFOs as envelopes (target volume, filter cutoff, overdive)

Oh my goodness. I just tried this on AMP volume. It’s absolutely insane how much dyanmics this creates.

I set the volume to like 63 and then modulated it with the above mentioned LFO.

This, for me, is the #1 tip for the RYTM I’ve ever received.

It’s like a different - better - machine!

I’ve updated all my kits with this, and they are much more lively now.

Everyone, stop what you are doing and try this now!

9 Likes
#11

I wonder how can a compressor improve dynamics… :roll_eyes:

5 Likes
#12

What’s so bad about the compressor in your opinion? IMO with p-locks on threshhold and ratio you can make some pumpy ass grooves

1 Like
#13

Do you mind to elaborate!

How much env amount? Neg or positive?
What about the LFO speed?

#14

Speed is all the way up. Depth is all the way up. Multiplier is between 1-32. Lower multipliers seem to work better. The key is to leave some headroom in the AMP level so that the LFO can push it up.

Just play with it. Turn some knobs. Break some shit.

3 Likes
#15

I find employing some fade enables even more control.

It’s too bad we have to give up an LFO for it tho :frowning:

#16

Lol. THIS. To OP: you seem experienced enough to know that the compressor is actually making the dynamics worse, trading it in for loudness. And since u know that, my comment is totally unnecessary, EXCEPT maybe for some lost soul who didn’t know this yet. I believe there are many!

I like the compressor as well, but I rarely use it as I most often want to have dedicated processing for Kick, Toms, and percussion/hi hats, hence I record all drums track by track.

1 Like
#17

Geez, you think it’s that bad? I really like all the FX on the Rytm actually. They seem well tailored for the machine in my ears. We can all agree that the Octatracks FX are real lousy (well most of them), but since the analog series, they’re great! Have you looked into all the parameters? I ALWAYS have to change the reverb (heighten the damping) and the delay (distortion, ping pong, and reverb send) to something that better fits my style.

#18

Prinzabu beat me to it…

And… there may be some trying to follow this who don’t know…as compression is a black art that takes a lot of time to comprehend, and sometimes people stumble in the dark for years thinking they are “supposed” to compress and that is “supposed” to be good, but its not always the case!..

Firstly all drum machines are already quite compressed…if you have ever recorded real drums you would know that the 2 instruments that have the largest dynamic range (the difference between the quietest and loudest parts) are the human voice and a drum kit…but if you look at recorded levels of a drum kit next to the levels of a drum machine they are not even in the same universe. Drum kits need compression, if you want to hear the quiet nuances of the drummer the snare would be so blisteringly loud that the kevlar from the drivers in the monitors would be lodged permanently in your skull. Drum machines dont suffer this, they are quite naturally already manufactured in a way that eliminate 2/3rds of the problems that 8 mics and inconsistent drummers create. The dynamics are quite controlled. ( im not talking about the desired smear effect of some compression character “effects” but just basic dynamic management)

soooo…saying all that, are we really looking to further reduce the dynamics and increase the loudness with the compressor in any drum machine? or is it the opposite? Because compression isn’t just for squashing your signal to then make it louder, its a transient sculpting tool. You can create punch to the point that people blink every time a snare hits. And in fact increase the dynamic range by shaping the transients and then increasing gain…Controlling dynamics with compression usually have controls that set the time it takes for the compressor to start reducing gain after the signal reaches the threshold. I.e. a late attack allows the transients to pass through, and the compression only reduces the dynamic range of the tail end of the signal…so the smack of the drum hit passes un effected, and the rest of the signal then gets squished. Meaning that if you increase the makeup gain now…you have in fact increased the dynamic range and made the transients more defined or louder than before. Giving Drums "Punch" and "Definition" clearing up the muddy long tail as the drum rings out, also mimicking the response of the saturated little hairs in your ears when they get smashed with a loud noise.

I like Elektron Compressors on the DT and ARMKii they behave a little different than most but seem tailored for the cause. I like to make the compressor let through just the transients and kill the muddy tail, then mix back in the original uncompressed signal so nothing is lost but some definition of the initial smack of each hit is gained.

20 Likes
#19

Hey All!

question about the modulation setup screen for velocity control. the bar on the far left is staying at a constant 100 . This is supposed to be the incoming signal level, right?