No MIDI output - ARRRRGGHHHHH

[mOBiTh]

[quote="“mOBiTh”]I didn’t say they made a failure - if they had I’d have sent it back.
If they planned to have midi out and can’t for any design limitation reason, then that is, by definition, a failure.
As I said before, I’m yet to see a useful response from elektron regarding the matter, only lots of complaints - they’d look far smarter if they clarified the situation. Noone is going to hate them if they planned something and weren’t able to deliver - this is not about ‘ego’, corporate or otherwise. Or at least it shouldn’t be - it’s supposed to a tool for musicians ffs and should be as useful as possible and as expected…

Fair enough… for educational purposes, I would love to hear a story on how/what/why they made whatever design-choice… and I would think its wrong of me, to try to stop you from getting this info… that’s different then moaning about stuff… So I do hope you find your answer… and its an answer that makes sense…

I don’t exactly buy the “its a money making/non overlapping” choice…
cpu trouble… makes more sense… but still doesn’t cut the cake for me.
but, then they came with that overbridge stuff… could well be that THIS is the reason they use so much cpu-cycles to keep that all going… or the combination of AND vst-communication AND external communication via midi and all that crap, was just to difficult to put in 1 nice giant workflow that was upkeepable they did keep this overbridge stuff as a surprise… almost makes me wonder if that was keeping them to be clear on things…

I don’t know buddy… I wish I had details to share… would sure save us on allot of discussion and speculation.
just remember I might sound more angry / a jerk then I really am… and I do wish you all the fun you can get out your machines…

[/quote]
no worries, I’m digging for a reaction here anyway really - I mean if everyone properly confronted elektron over it I’m sure they’d feel more inclined to implement it…
ahh overbridge…
well it’s wonderful of them to do this for the people who will make some use of it, but this was not what I originally bought into, and it’s of no value to me.
i’m not sure why you’d buy hardware and then make it pretend to be software tbh. it’s simplistic and lazy, it hardly encourages experimentation, and it’s farcical if you have a medium to large studio with lots of other hardware that you’ll still have to record the old fashioned way (properly).
seems strange to put all that energy into implementing something so complex, of limited appeal, and ultimately unexpected as overbridge, whilst missing out something so simple, desirable, and expected as midi out on a sequencer!
actually it’s quite funny.

[the_dreammer]

no worries, I’m digging for a reaction here anyway really - I mean if everyone properly confronted elektron over it I’m sure they’d feel more inclined to implement it…
ahh overbridge…
well it’s wonderful of them to do this for the people who will make some use of it, but this was not what I originally bought into, and it’s of no value to me.

This I agree with you… I got the feeling, that lots of people use elektron… because they hate being in the box… they work with computers all day… why continue when your long workday programing stuff/number crunching/whatever is finished… to sit behind one when works done…

and that overbridge will do jack shit in my hardware studio… where I just DONT have a computer… I paid good money to have hardware sequencers/hardware recorders/hardware fx… and a bunch of mixers…

then again… live forced me out of the big studio… and the appeal of playing with my box on the sofa… and then hooking it up to renoise to properly track a song… (where music making isn’t seen as a hobby, but as something that buys me hamburgers) . interesting… especially if I don’t need a syncbox to make sample-accurate recordings of whatever I do (I assume this will be the case) and no interface to play with it (shame on me, but I just use the build-in-soundcard on my laptop… because well it just connects to my speakers. and has nothing to do with the sound-generation/recording whatsoever) That… and if it works like I assume it does (well… hope is a better word then assume) it will be awesome to tie my vjsoftware + renoise + my elektrons together…
I might even do a livesetup of an A4 + rhythm + ableton/bitwig + vjsoftware + renoiseplugin (I think they call it relux or something) … that be a bad-ass performance… everything jam-able and fluid in choices… but video + lightshow + whatever totally in sync… that’s wicked… something I tried with my mc909 about 6 years ago… which worked good… but not excellent due to lack of intergration…

but yeah… that’s a whole level of other thinking/use then the average elektron-user I think…

anyways thank you for not seeing me as a total jerk that’s raining on your parade… I appreciate that.
and I do like that everybody is trying hard to figure out their own way of doing things and looking at things… it might teach this old dog some new tricks… woof

[gigerbone]

i’m not sure why you’d buy hardware and then make it pretend to be software tbh. it’s simplistic and lazy, it hardly encourages experimentation, and it’s farcical if you have a medium to large studio with lots of other hardware that you’ll still have to record the old fashioned way (properly).
seems strange to put all that energy into implementing something so complex, of limited appeal, and ultimately unexpected as overbridge, whilst missing out something so simple, desirable, and expected as midi out on a sequencer!
actually it’s quite funny.

I’m still struggling to process this Overbridge thing, it seems so un-Elektron and exactly the kind of thing that the average Elektron user isn’t the least bit interested in, those cats hate computers and even if there is some PC/Mac love there they bought their Elektron for the Hardware experience.
The only thing that makes anything like sense, that keeps crossing my mind, is competition from Roland’s Aira stuff but I can’t see Elektron being worried enough about losing Analog Four/Rytm sales to Roland to quickly promise an upcoming feature as seemingly naff as “turn your Elektron into a VST”. Perhaps it will make more sense when it lands and actually be of more use than it seems at this time but at the moment it’s a whole heap of WTF?!

[mOBiTh]

yeh, I mean how may elektron users were sat in their studios thinking “fuck, how am I actually going to record this thing into my computer?”

everyone that buys hardware for recording will have a sound card. everyone who records seriously will probably have multiple routes into their DAW. I have four, although now five thanks to my A4. I can’t see anyone buying the A4 instead of a soundcard - that would be daft.

it’s a silly feature but perhaps they’re trying to aim at the casual/small studio owner who doesn’t want to lug a mixer? weird.

i also rarely use my computer for anything other than multitracking audio however one thing I do like to do is record midi string/pad sequences over the top of a whole multitrack arrangement. short loops of these sounds sound shit - I want a nice evolving track of basically unlimited length (difficult to do with hardware) that I can go back and edit if any undesirable voice stealing goes on.

voice-stealing is not such an issue with eight+ voices but with FOUR voices it is an issue - you absolutely need to be able to go back and edit the sequence before recording, unless either you’re a very accomplished keyboardist who is used to playing only four notes at once (i’m not) or you only have four fingers (I have more).

so it’s wonderful that we can now play the A4 polyphonically or paraphonically, but how the fuck are we supposed to get desirable results for strings/pads when we can’t record and edit our sequences in the midi domain before recording???

[mOBiTh]

I’m still struggling to process this Overbridge thing, it seems so un-Elektron and exactly the kind of thing that the average Elektron user isn’t the least bit interested in, those cats hate computers and even if there is some PC/Mac love there they bought their Elektron for the Hardware experience.
The only thing that makes anything like sense, that keeps crossing my mind, is competition from Roland’s Aira stuff but I can’t see Elektron being worried enough about losing Analog Four/Rytm sales to Roland to quickly promise an upcoming feature as seemingly naff as “turn your Elektron into a VST”. Perhaps it will make more sense when it lands and actually be of more use than it seems at this time but at the moment it’s a whole heap of WTF?!

perhaps they’re aiming for the lazy laptop dj market - ie stick an a4 next to your laptop to make it look like you’re playing proper hardware and not just pre-recorded shite on your laptop?
maybe they could have added bluetooth too, so you could control it with your ipad, or some sort of gesture thingy, whilst occasionally punching the air?
gimmickry is annoying.

[R7]

I also would REALLY like midi out so I can record notes to my DAW. I actually bought the Analog 4 assuming it would have this feature. Everything else does. I bought it because I like to do some of the songwriting process away from the computer and use the computer more for recording, sequencing and production. Sometimes it’s just more inspiring to write melodies and rhythms with your head stuck in a piece of hardware. But I’ll just have a rhythmic section or a simple melody and once it’s in the DAW as midi note data your free to expand on it.

I was immensely disappointed and still am the the Analog Four doesn’t offer this feature. I’ve so far kept the Analog 4 because I love the sound of it’s filters and it’s Unison and Feedback OSC + AM make it pretty unique, but the lack of midi out is just ridiculous.

MIDI is such a small amount of data to be sent that I just can’t believe that there isn’t enough processing power to send even note data. Especially when the internal sequencer appears to be using midi. Every parameter has 127 values. Why do that if the sequencer isn’t using midi.

I hope Overbridge adds midi support. I honestly think the only reason Elektron hasn’t added midi is if they did, you should be able to sequence other devices from the Analog 4 and they think they will lose sales on their other devices.

If they add Midi out as USB exclusive MIDI data, then you should only be able to use the notes in your sequencer and they shouldn’t have to worry about a loss of sales. Just more happy customers.

[mOBiTh]

re. loss of sales:

the A4 will definitely be the last elektron box I buy until this is resolved - that is a guaranteed loss of sales from me if you’re listening elektron, and judging by the number of people I’ve seen sell their A4s quite quickly, I imagine there are plenty of others.

it’s such a shame that the company have turned what could be the hub of many peoples’ studios into an essentially disposable synth - once you get tired of the sound it’s basically useless. very irritating when you’ve invested a lot of time into learning to programme and play their sequencer/interface…

[leighzi88]

Pbbr, midi out just waiting to be used but does nothing!

[Burn_Cycle]

I love that sequencer, no note out is such a waste of unique potential. I don’t want to use a computer for midi sequencing either. The sequencing may be the best part about the Elektrons, especially the A4.

Theoretically I would even sacrifice CV + 1 track to get 1 midi track out (w triad chords) from the A4. Just a thought.

I just don’t like having 2 expensive (Elektron) units (just to do midi). The worst part is I dont see any alternative either but I’m looking at an Alesis MMT-8, does that do midi slave to A4 or pattern switching?

Has anyone tried the Electrongate UniTrigger? It’s the only CV to midi converter I know but tbh i don’t know anything about CV out sequencing so I dont know if this would work, can anyone tell me?

http://www.electrongate.com/dmxfiles/unitrigger.html

[Keiowas]

The thing is… Elektron has grown a lot since they released A4 so i think it sells a lot more than you could imagine.
And for the overbridge. Its a really nice thing. I dont umderstand what you are talking about.
Its perfect to get all tracks with usb in to the computer. And if they do it really well i can use fx in the computer and send everything out in stereo. And hopefully i can get the parameters in to the computer for the best of two worlds.

[Anigbrowl]

In another post one of the Elektron folks confirmed that most (nearly all?) of the CPU / DSP power is required to control the analogue circuits generating the sound. So basically there isn’t any CPU left to guarantee good timing for the MIDI sequencer.

I don’t believe a word of that

[tonight]

[quote=“t”]My theory is that MIDI out for the sequencer is missing simply because there’s no way you could ever send out all the CC Messages needed for the number of plocks supported and get any kind of repeatable result.

This seems reasonable - if this is the case though it wouldn’t hurt elektron to detail it. After all, midi has been around long enough for everyone to know it’s limitations and it would clarify things once and for all.
Having said that, this is not what I’m asking for - I just want midi note data - which is not too much to ask for - every other fucking sequencer in the world does it… (including the other elektrons…)[/quote]
so no vel or at or pb or pc or vol data? yeah you’d be the first to complain
why does it have midi note out and no basic data?

[natrixgli]

[quote=“ZenPunkHippy”]In another post one of the Elektron folks confirmed that most (nearly all?) of the CPU / DSP power is required to control the analogue circuits generating the sound. So basically there isn’t any CPU left to guarantee good timing for the MIDI sequencer.

I don’t believe a word of that
[/quote]
I dunno, look at the Tempest… It’s been a constant struggle to introduce even basic MIDI functionality without breaking timing.
By contrast, the A4/AR both have full MIDI control from external devices, so you have to consider how performance would be affected if you were sending a bunch of MIDI CC to the A4 while also trying to send MIDI out.
Either way, it’s not like it was ever promised or even hinted. So i’m not sure what the fuss is about. (though I do see how MIDI out would be nice, I did get bored of the A4 synths quite quickly.)

[ZenPunkHippy]

[quote=“ZenPunkHippy”]In another post one of the Elektron folks confirmed that most (nearly all?) of the CPU / DSP power is required to control the analogue circuits generating the sound. So basically there isn’t any CPU left to guarantee good timing for the MIDI sequencer.

I don’t believe a word of that
[/quote]
The last sentence I made up to support the no MIDI argument But AFAIK the other bit about CPU is true.
Unfortunately I can’t’ find the post, it was quite some time ago (maybe 6 months).

[Veets]

[quote=“ZenPunkHippy”]In another post one of the Elektron folks confirmed that most (nearly all?) of the CPU / DSP power is required to control the analogue circuits generating the sound. So basically there isn’t any CPU left to guarantee good timing for the MIDI sequencer.

I don’t believe a word of that
[/quote]
Me neither. Here’s the processing power you need to run MIDI sequencing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TgyMEG4tmAQ

[NRain]

[smokyfrog]

dunno what made me think of that

[Anigbrowl]

[quote=“Anigbrowl”][quote=“ZenPunkHippy”]In another post one of the Elektron folks confirmed that most (nearly all?) of the CPU / DSP power is required to control the analogue circuits generating the sound. So basically there isn’t any CPU left to guarantee good timing for the MIDI sequencer.

I don’t believe a word of that
[/quote]
The last sentence I made up to support the no MIDI argument But AFAIK the other bit about CPU is true.
Unfortunately I can’t’ find the post, it was quite some time ago (maybe 6 months).[/quote]
Oh I believe you. I meant I don’t believe Elektron are telling the truth when they say they ran out of CPU. They have been doing super-tight MIDI sequencing since the MD in 2002, they understand the technology requirements to do that better than almost anyone else in the world. I don’t think they just forgot how when it came time to design the A4.

[ZenPunkHippy]

OK, fair point … obviously it’s all speculation from us, it would be good to get some definitive comment from HQ. Probably not gonna happen, though!

[lemons]

It would be great if Elektron would separately sell midi sequencer functionality to A4. I personally would pay more than pennies for a midi sequencer addon to Analog Four. I love sequencing with its minikeyboard, and would love to use it to control my other (digital) synths…