Feeding a drum bus into a vocoder instead of vocal is always great!
At the risk of adding fuel to an already raging fire, I actually think Roland did the right thing going for ACB rather than SMD analog, hereās why:
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Ease of consistency, no calibration or temperature considerations, component tolerances or dual rail power requirements.
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There have been a few analog recreations from other companies already, and all of them have been said to not sound right in one way or another. This would suggest that it is nowhere near as trivial a task as ābloke on the internetā reckons it should be.
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Complexity - it would take a lot more parts to make them analog, this would increase the cost, number of rejections, assembly time, development time.
To be clear Iām not saying that I would not have liked them to be analog, but I can see why they chose the ACB route.
And if the 303 or 909 sound is so important to you, well then you owe it to yourself to buy an original, yes they are expensive, but I donāt see you losing money on one if you decide to sell it later. Perhaps we are spoilt these days with cheaper gear, but I find it crazy that people spend so much money on clones when really only an original would make them happy.
Korg Volcas are great, but they are not trying to emulate a classic machine so are a much simpler undertaking to design.
The TB-03 sounded probably closer than other clones I have heard so far, but Iām not going to know for sure until I have one in my setup and comparing it to my 303s, I could have done without the distortion/overdrive as personally I was already rather tired of that sound in the 90ās when I was making records with distorted 303s. Plus if you want distorted acid lines then any clone will do as almost all the subtleties of the 303 sound are lost once you overdrive it that hard anyway.
Would I be as ok with the TB-03 if I did not already have 303s? Yes I think I would, I no longer own a 909 and the TR-09 will suit me fine, if I want to process any sounds individually then I can just sample them into the OT or whatever.
One other thing about that, so many classic records are recorded with the 909 (or 808 etc) directly from the main out, you do get a different sound (especially on the 808) and you canāt easily eq and process the sounds but listen to some of your favourite records from the 80s and 90s and you will hear what I mean, yes there are plenty of exceptions, but true especially on the more ghetto stuff where multitracking and even sampling was not always possible. Back in the day 12 and 16 channel mxers were what a lot of guys were using, or sometimes just a portastudio, so often sep outs were not used, outside of pro studios.
Also a lot of people were using Amiga samples rather than the actual machines
Ok enough rambling
agree with all this Daren.
I always wondered how the gear heads would actually react if Roland did come out with as close as possible analog re-release of any of the classic X0X machines.
Iāll keep my mouth shut about what I think would happen. Great post though. I donāt know much about what it takes to get a sellable end product, but everything youāve said makes a lot of sense from the little I do know about how analog parts work. I think in 20-30 years itāll be interesting to see what people think about all the gear that has been coming out the past 15-20 years.
In my DIY experience, a problem with component-for-component recreations is that doing the calibration in the exact same way as was done originally at the factory is hard. The problem can be that the steps arenāt clear, that you donāt have the correct gear available, or that the gear youāre using turns out to give slightly different readings.
This one. Check the music credits at the end
^ Very 90ās Roland āGroove Approvedā and all the head bobbing, LOL
Tried out the 303 and 909 reissues. The Boutique 909 sounds pretty bang on but I just donāt care for the interface, especially for those baby finger knobs and buttons. I have a Rytm so spending another $600 to āget that soundā is not worth it. The TB-03 was a pretty good emulation, again I dislike the tiny very cheap plastic knobs but I had fun with it. In fact I had the TR-09, the TB-03 hooked up and synced with the MX-1 and I was having a blast jamming out a track, using mutes, FX, tweaking the cutoff/filter/mod of the TB-03ā¦Which I think is part of the joy of computer less synths and drum machines, just noodling and jamming based on how things sound as oppose to staring at a screen.
I had a feeling those buttons and knobs were tiny tiny tiny.
I messed with a JU06 and JP08 for a few weeks and the sliders were super super tiny and I couldnāt deal.
They sounded freaking amazing though
Which kinda makes me wonder if the Aira version is actually easier to play with and how the sound compares. Yeah but I swear each reissue in the synth world has to be āminiā. Like I get itās super portable and if itās digital you donāt need all that space anyways but like I donāt want to be jamming out in a club having to squint at the gear like an old man reading a newspaper and also not accidentally hit five other button and knobs when Iām only tweaking one. Also maybe not a big deal soundwise but the TB-03 feels like a toy like the MicroKorg MK 2 does. Not even quality plastic.
^
Thatās cos itās metal ā¦
And thatās exactly how I liked a 909 to sound.
All sounds balance carefully within, as a whole, rather than individually processed.
Anyone who uses āfeels like a toyā and āTB-03ā in the same sentence has clearly never seen or touched an actual TB-303.
[quote=āSub_Cmdr, post:442, topic:30083ā]Which I think is part of the joy of computer less synths and drum machines, just noodling and jamming based on how things sound as oppose to staring at a screen.
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I jam on on my computer / push like this ā¦ have said it many times before, the idea of working using a computer as āstaring at a screenā is doing it wrong imho.
Iāve just spent an hour tweaking ABL3 - which Iād nearly forgotten I own - and UAD Culture Vulture, sounds pretty nice to me, although youād never mistake it for a real 303. But going by the demos Iāve heard of the TB-03 to date, thatās also the case there.
I will say that thereās something appealing about these little boxes still for my living room MPC based setup, and I do like the idea of them as self contained boxes, even if theyāre a bit small ā¦ but I donāt think Iāve seen enough as yet to convince me to pre-order.
Thanks, just looking at getting rid of a couple of pieces at the moment, Iāll drop you at a later stage if Iām still interested.
Detailed review of the TB-03. The knobs look bigger than the ones on my Volcas - so theyāre usable for me.
With a Strymon Bigsky you can do that. And with a chorus of angels no less.
I donāt know what it is, but I havenāt really been impressed with what ove heard with bigsky. Iāll give it another go, though
CDM makes some good points about the VP-03 here:
Iāve never really been into vocoders, so I admittedly overlooked the Roland VPs - new and vintage alike. I didnāt know, for example, that the VPs include a āstring machineā sound. What really got my attention though was this bit:
The VP-03 breaks with tradition, though, in a wonderful way, with two new features. First, thereās a step sequencer ā making the VP the love child of the vocoder and the 909.
Then, in the most delightful surprise on the unit, Roland added a sampler. The sampler and step sequencer work together. Hold down a step, record something into the mic, and then you can retrigger that slice from the step sequencer and/or keyboard.
And that to me is a stroke of sheer genius. In fact, for rapidly producing sliced-up sound, the VP-03 for me is what Korgās volca sample failed to be.
This video briefly touches on the āsamplingā part, as well as covering the other features.
Kind of odd elektron have not released anything āminiā they really did carry the tourch for a long time when it comes to drum machines and i cant help but sit here and think " where are the elektron mini boxes" Considering they have allot of digital synthesis (off the market) why cant we have elektron toys to play with the volca. teenage engineering and now roland toys ???
Everyone would buy them