Moog mother or behr model d sound

Does moog mother sound so much better than new model d or it s just me?

just you
edit: they are two different synths… they sound different. you may like one over the other because of your preference for that synths sound (i prefer the mother32).
A better comparison would be Moog Model D vs Boog D

Well, they’re different synths so different people will like one better than the other…

But also in general one is hand made by passionate people and uses very high quality components and undergoes strict testing, the other is mass produced and purposely made using cheaper components and whatever else they could do to cut costs to make it affordable…

I would not expect the same level of audio quality…

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interesting conversation from reddit about the quality of behringer model d components:

[–]BobmaloogaloogaEuro 11 points 29 days ago
The DM12 and the D are both built far better than the current SMD Moog synths. I own and use both but it is the truth. Not only are the components better but they are way more within the tolerances. As an EE it makes me laugh when people trot out the same old lines about Behringer. They truly have no clue about Music Group, Coolaudio, etc.

I have 20+ years as an EE. I’d gladly discuss the technical justification with anyone that wants to. It is not an objective statement. I have been inside many Moogs including all of the current gen SMD ones and all of the Behringer synths so far.

You are paying for name/brand recognition and you are also paying for everything that goes along with it. Moog doesn’t own their own SMD facilities. There is literally nothing different between the process between a Moog SMD board, a Behringer SMD board, and a Casio SMD board. Oddly enough, often the Casio that costs $50 will be the better designed and higher quality (maybe not sounding though). The reason Behringer can do it cheaply and with any quality level they choose is because they own the entire supply chain and manufacturing. Moog can’t. Moog obviously will have a great relationship with one or more manufacturing facilities but they still don’t own them and they are just another client. Behringer can completely tool up a full line exactly how they want, Moog can make requests some which will or won’t happen or are possible. They have to make concessions.

SMD is very democratizing. If you have a solid design and components well within spec and high quality, you yourself can make a synth that rivals Moog or anyone else out there. Easily for less than $1,500, even if it is a one-off custom. You, however, won’t be able to do it for $300. You don’t control the entire supply chain and own the manufacturing facilities.

All that said, Behringer could easily skimp on QC or components at any time and anywhere that they want to. However, I have been inside and all through the DM12 and D and that just isn’t the case in these so far. What I see are absolutely brilliant circuit design that is insanely scalable and suited to re-use which just offers them an additional advantage. It is how they were able to do a DM12 Desktop and DM6 in such short order. They could make a super cheap DM1 mono, or a DM48, the design scales perfectly. The components are all high quality and they have selected components with a lot of overhead built in which equates to longer life and better reliability in many different settings and environments.

It is why I chuckle all the time at the same old tired lines about Behringer or other brands, people just have no clue. I have been to their factory in Zhongshan, China and it is incredible. I have worked in and among many areas of manufacturing in China and SE Asia and the facilities and workers are treated better there than almost any electronic manufacturing facility I have been to. Not because they were forced to either, but they have been run this way since the beginning. It is another thing I laugh about when people try to claim Behringer uses cheap Chinese labor and is exploiting people. Nothing could be further from the truth. Meanwhile, a lot of those big brand names that people believe to be boutique and special use nothing but those exploitative facilities and have for years. I don’t hold it against people though, they just parrot what they hear as “facts” and genuinely have no clue.

Music Group owns:

Midas

Klark Teknik

Behringer

Bugera

Eurocom

Turbosound

TC Electronic

TC-Helicon

Lake

Lab.gruppen

Tannoy

TC Applied Technologies

Link : https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/7z2n6b/behringer_model_d_circuit_board_high_res/dulmm1b/

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Hmm, interesting… Like I said I wouldn’t expect as good of quality, perhaps I’m wrong… Still a bit skeptical after reading that, but what do I know… Never heard them in person to compare.

Here’s a partial lowdown of Moogs Model D reissue:


It’s hard to believe a company making an affordable replication could be putting as much into it…

But again what do I know…
I do know know Moog is good people, have friends that work there. They’re like a family and care a lot about what they’re doing. It’s cooperatively owned now too which I think is pretty cool. This has nothing to do with sound quality I’m just sayin, they’re pretty chill…

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I don’t know maybe the guys right but his vibe just rubs me wrong. It seems pretty normal to assume a handmade USA original design would be built better than a much cheaper replica version of the same thing made in China. That’s usually the case I would imagine…

I don’t like how he doesn’t just politely explain the facts and how he makes it seem like people are fools who don’t know what he knows… Maybe he’s right it’s just hard to listen to him… Haha…

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Agree about his attitude, but that makes it more believable to me he actually is a 20+ year veteran in engineering going by the engineers I know :joy:

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Thought his attitude was pretty measured to be honest, found the post quite convincing too! There is a lot of faith in elitism and myth when it comes to synths I think, especially when it comes to analog/digital or affordable/insanely expensive.

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There’s some interesting stuff to consider about Moog. Traditionally they barely make any money and have almost gone out of buisness several times. I’m pretty sure Bob lost the rights to his own name for a bit and had to fight to get it back. From what I’ve seen Bob Moog was a super cool guy, there’s some really good documentaries about him out there and he seems to really care about the music. He’s right there with Emerson behind the stage as they unleashed the first modular to big rock shows, and he worked really closely with him and others to make the designs musical. I recommend watching some, he’s also a genius engineer and they’re very interesting.

The rest of em are just a small group trying to carry on his vision and make synths for people and haven’t wanted overly expand… Everything I’ve read or seen from them is all super family style, and there’s stuff out there to read and watch about them where you can pick that up, unlike Elektron for example who I know next to nothing about what their like… They donate instruments to schools and are always doing workshops and getting children involved, explaining the science behind the sounds… There’s lots you can find out about them and their history, I suggest checking it out if it sounds interesting… I do personally know people that work there FWIW…

“Behringer can do it cheaply and with any quality level they choose is because they own the entire supply chain and manufacturing. Moog can’t, they are just another client. Behringer can completely tool up a full line exactly how they want, Moog can make requests some which will or won’t happen or are possible. They have to make concessions”

I don’t know, there’s more to things than just which ones cheaper… Even if quality is on par… I don’t know much about Behringer, maybe they’re super cool too. But all I’ve heard is wholesome things about how the Moog company is run, I think it’s rather unique in itself not even considering if their stuff is any good or not…

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it would be hilarious if Moog did a clone of the Deepmind.

Roland would be freaking out, they wouldn’t know what to think :joy:

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Here’s a good one about ol Bob, I recommend watching to anyone interested in electronic music or synthesis at all (all of you😂)…


Sorry if I’m off on a tangent @shinobi, I’m having a awfully hard time not going meta on threads lately…
But this is good stuff…

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If people have a lot of disposable income then shoot for what makes you feel good, I guess I just have a problem with people being almost classist about less expensive/storied gear. It’s akin to the saturation of the craft ale/bakery/whatever trends of the middle classes who charge more for the presumed prestige of their rather everyday product.

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okay back to topic (vaguely): how about the Moog D-Fam for bass? I’ve some utterly delectable, smooth rich creamy basslines played/sequenced on the D-Fam, not sure exactly how they synced with other non-control-voltage midi gear.

or for that matter, the Deepmind does some okay bass patches.

personally i’m eagerly awaiting the arrival of a Roland se02 in a few days or so.

If it helps I haven’t had more than 20 extra dollars in like two years it seems, just saying it’s not always a disposable income thing… :rofl:

Oh, and I totally agree with you that would be silly to be classist about anything really, especially a synth…
I’ve always been a supporter of creativity over gear, and I fully believe in the right hands cheap toys, broken things, and synths with bad reps can make way better music than an uninspired artist in a million dollar studio…

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@Open_Mike

I think Moog as a brand has a certain ethos around it, and well deserved. They are a special instrument, when you buy a Moog you buy into that history and legacy and that’s a cool thing.
The things that Moog as a company do now with education and history are also important and theres nothing wrong with them charging the prices they do, they are a part of synth history (a big part!). I would love an expensive Moog synth, one day I would like to have one. Like having a nice piano. It’s just as much a piece of art in itself as it is an instrument (to me anyway).

A behringer synth is a product of utility of mass production, and if what that reddit engineer says is true, a better produced piece. I believe it, there’s no reason behringer couldn’t out perform Moog or any other boutique maker in the manufacturing process. They do own everything and have complete control. They have been mass producing cheap gear for a long time at massive scale, and their products have been getting better and better over time. I would think that Uli would want to do this right (the clone wars) after being so public about it and personally putting his name next to all of these synths.

Maybe behringer will be a big player in synths in 10 years and will bring us some of the most exciting new stuff around, and I look forward to it, but I don’t think a mass produced synth will every give me the same feeling as owning a handbuilt Moog or a little Dreadbox assembled in Greece.

Theres a place for both and I don’t think Moog lose any face by being out manufactured by behringer :grin:

Imho

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I only have first hand experience with the mother- but that thing felt so much more preferable than anything I’ve heard from the model D(sans the price tag)

I agree with every single word you said here.

I happen to love the Moog sound, which is fortunate since I buy their gear. Even so, knowing that I support a company that represents a lot of good things in our world, makes it feel even better.

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apples and oranges

Anybody who has hands-on experience with both - how does the build quality compare?

I will say, I love Moog, but I have been very impressed with demos I have heard of that Behringer Model D. Thick steamy rich organic sound pulsating through my headphones. I almost bought one for ~ $270. Unbelievable price.

I’ve got both. A Behringer Model D and two Moog Mother-32. They are totally different synths.

The Model D is impressive because it replicates the Minimoog for a price tenfold cheaper. It has 3 OSCs. It makes beautiful bass sounds with OSC 2/3 tuned to the third or fifth. It has a nice pink noise. You can’t modulate easily anything else than the pitch or the filter.

The Mother-32 on the other hand has only one OSC. But it has much more possibilities when it comes to modulation, due to the patch bay. It’s much easier to get the resonance or filter to self oscillate. The LFO can go a lot faster too, which helps. You can route signals like a madman and discover really interesting sounds. It has a small sequencer which can be triggered by the patchbay too so you can enjoy polyrythms and stuff. Add a second one and you can play the third or the fifth or whatever you like (and if you only have one, you can already somehow use the filter/res as a second OSC).

The Model D is much more like a cheaper SE-02 without a sequencer and memories and a delay fx and midi sync for the lfo/delay BUT with pink noise. Also having the SE-02, I find the Model D to sound better though (I can’t get rid of the metallic feeling of the SE-02, where the Model D sounds much warmer to my ears).

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