Kind of feeling burned

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
#16

I truly cannot understand how you could feel burned.

When you bought the A4 you where 100% aware of itā€™s features and limitations. At that point you decided it was worth the money and YOU decided to get one.

Now Elektron introduces a more expensive machine based on the A4 but with added features and you feel burnt.

In the EU the AK costs 590euro more than the A4. That is almost 51% more than the A4 itself. For that (almost) 51% more you get a 3 octave keybed, some leds, a sligthly tweaked PCB and individual outs.

Existing (and future) A4 owners get all of the other stuff for free.

You could even say that a lot of the extra functionality (like perhaps the poly mode) would have never been available for the A4 if the AK wasnā€™t developed.

Really, I donā€™t see anything but positives here. And if you need the seperate outsā€¦sell your A4 and get a AK. :slight_smile:

BTW: Iā€™m not questioning if the A4 would have benefitted from the extra outputs. It would haveā€¦but at the moment that we decided to buy one this was not one of itā€™s features. So itā€™s not a surprise nor has Elektron forced us to get one anyway.

#17

I donā€™t understand the problem. The A4 has never been promoted to have multiple outs. So you knew what you were buying. If you donā€™t like it you shouldnā€™t have bought it. If no one bought the A4 because of the lack of multiple outs elektron would be sitting on a big pile of trash and would have rushed to make an A4 with multiple outs. Customers have this certain power, choose wisely on what you spend your money or be the marketā€™s toy boy (or girl) (or whatever, you know what i am trying to say)

#18

No shit that the A4 never was promoted as having multiple outs, not shit that I knew what I was getting and never expected the A4 to have multiple outs. I also never expected them to release the exact same thing with so many upgrade within a year. Did you? I have been sitting on this for awhile, I do not think I am just flying off the handle.

#19

Having an A4, I DO want the AK but think it would be more annoying to learn thereā€™s no way of easily linking the A4 and AK other than being perhaps able to play the external A4 via keysā€¦do not have all those specs and answers yet to make a choice yet.

A separate product is a great thing because it further enlarges the customer/musician base of Elektron because face it, not every musician works the same and those especially of us that are keyboard/synth players and sound designers, the AK is the exact thing that is attractive and the size factor is perfect.

Those separate outs are gold plated, really high quality DACā€™s are indeed expensive and when comes to sound Elektron does not cut corners there.

About sound: The extra resonance for Filter 1 is VERY welcome as felt Filter 2 was/is more utilitarianā€¦and hoping that gets into the A4 as well but hey, if itā€™s a hardware change that made it only possible for AK, certainly no reason to moan!

These are indeed great times because the bar is being set higher and higher by handful of smaller independent companies, in the end each and everyone benefits from new and fun instruments to make music with.

#20

A4 Keys announcement does not bother me at all.

Yes individual voice outs would be nice, but I knew what the limitations were when purchasing the device. The price of the original A4 is very reasonable too, considering what you get.

Although Elektron have never disappointed in terms of keeping OS updates flowing (10 years in the case of the Macheindrum - not many companies can say that!), the addition of the keyboard model means the A4 will continue to be updated for a long time.

The unlocked +drive is going to be great. Polyphony is a major win. Canā€™t really complain about any of that. Well you can complain - itsā€™ the Internet - but I donā€™t think itā€™s particularly fair to Elektron :wink:

My 2 cents.

#21

http://www.elektronauts.com/t/interest-check-separate-outs-mod/2012 :wink:

#22

AK is not meant to replace the A4. Itā€™s for keyboardists that actually play the keys. Just like so many companies have done time and time again, theyā€™ve essentially offered a ā€œfull unitā€ and a ā€œrack mountā€ unit of the same synth. I think it was very wise of Elektron to offer a product for the more ā€œclassically trainedā€ musicians to get into. For some, theyā€™ll need the keys. For others, theyā€™ll need the portability.

I also doubt theyā€™ve held back on releasing updates in order to trick people into ā€¦doing something? I think the story may well be that Elektron, being a small company that needs to create profits to survive, is not only continually refining the products they already have, but also need to be creating new offerings at the same time. Too much work and not enough people means that things donā€™t roll out as slickly as they would if they were coming from a giant company. Updates get pushed back because responding to market demand/opportunity (analog synths are all the rage right now) is priority number one, especially in a tough global economy. Running a small niche company can be VERY ā€œtouch and goā€.

#23

God forbid I have an opinion and I express it. Suddenly I am complainer despite having owned Elektron gear for over 7 years and at one point owned every single one of the 4 machines they have made that are still available today and I have been nothing but supporter of the company. I have an Octatrack with a jenky headphone output which they have not been able to fix with two attempts, an A4 with chipped ass paint from simple studio use. Complain about that? Nope. I am not complainer. But I will certainly express my opinion when I feel I have laid down $1.2 K on a device that does not have what I consider to be a huge functionality deficit compared to essentially the same device release 1 year later.

#24

I never said it was meant to replace the A4. I said that I think the multiple outputs was a purposeful omission meant to help create demand for the AK but that added functionality is huge, at least as huge as the addition of keys and joystick. I could not make an educated choice as to what to which to buy because the way they choose to roll out these products. Honestly, i would have waited for the individual outs.

#25

I understand your frustration, no doubt, I think everyone does. My Monomachine power connection is janky as fuck, and if i barely bump it, itā€™s power OFF! Itā€™s a known issue I believe. But at the same time, the MnM is the most crazy cool machine Iā€™ve ever owned!

I donā€™t think anyone is calling you a ā€œcomplainerā€. People are just offering a different point of view so maybe you wonā€™t feel so ā€œburntā€. Nobodyā€™s coming down on you for NOT being a cool-aid drinking fanboy :wink:

#26

I agree with this 100%. I think they should have rolled the A4 and AK out at the same time.

#27

I think the detail of your annoyance and suspicions are all reasonable and this is the place to get it out, iā€™ve no issue with the moaning, iā€™m just trying to help without sounding patronising that thereā€™s no point in being frustrated, you are entitled and it helps to get it out, by getting it out i thought a bit of my view on levity might help, get it out, but one thingā€™s for sure, nothing is gonna change, so iā€™d make peace with it and try to make peace with these comments -you donā€™t strike me as a moaner all iā€™m sayinā€™ is that this is spilled milk - nothingā€™s gonna change it - who knows what they had in mind, even if we know, it changes nothing - i doubt they were holding back, my opinion

trust me, an A4 with a decent external keyboard will be 99.9% of an AK at a price that would be less - a joystick is just two cc controls, thereā€™s nothing that canā€™t be duplicated - we just donā€™t get the turbo bass fine tuning - and it will be fine tuning, the major factor is the oscillators which will be the same - we both get filter resonance enhancement to spice the 1st filter a bit

iā€™m getting worried that lack of individual outs isnā€™t bothering me, iā€™m in a group of 1, am i missing something, i can do it on plenty of my gear !
#rhetorical

#28

Regarding the CV outs being used as audio. Most MOTU audio interfaces have DC-coupled I/O and can be used to control a modular via CV when used with Expert Sleepersā€™s Silent Way software, and clearly they do audio.

I donā€™t know if the hardware design of the A4 will allow this, of course, but that might mean itā€™s possible for Elektron to update it.

#29

yep - i use the audio out of my motu for this purpose - this raises an interesting point with the A4 platform though - where would elektron stand if you forgot your outs were set to cv (up to +/-10V) and you wasted some external gear by feeding it something vastly hotter than an audio signal - itā€™s all a bit risky potentially (no pun intended)

#30

What treally gets me is that it seems to be industry-wide. not just Elektron.
Just an opinion but I think at the very least a minimum of 6 outputs not including main outs on any pro electronic musical instrument.

I was worried the new machine was going to be an Octatrack MKII with multiple outs like the Machinedrum that alone would be worth an upgrade to me, though the loss on the used market to upgrade would have hurt. ( Though I wouldnā€™t be surprised if Elektron released a combination Octatrack/Machinedrum/A4)

Best we can do is work with what we have ( not matter what we do there will always be a next best thing)

#31

i understand the frustration but i donā€™t think thereā€™s no evil doing hereā€¦ a lot of people complained about the lack of outputs, it was a deal breaker for meā€¦ well elektron listened and added themā€¦ can you really blame them? that being said the A4 did feel a little rushed outā€¦ no poly, hidden +drive & paint issuesā€¦

#32

I agree that another four individual outs on the A4 would have been practical (and I only recently bought the A4) but knowing this is part of the AK doesnā€™t leave me feeling burned at all. I knew the specs when I bought it.
Personally I wouldnā€™t have bought the AK even if I had held off a little longer for itā€™s release because I am not sure itā€™s really worth the extra cost when you consider other options already available out there. Fill in your own blanks on that one but I am not talking about something made by Elektron obviously.
The A4 is a very unique product and itā€™s limitations are also part of what makes it so special. Itā€™s a cliche, but working with limitations forces you to be more creative too and this is a far healthier way to approach the subject of the AK vs A4.
Donā€™t feel burned - Your A4 is awesome and itā€™s about to get an impressive update too.

#33

Thanks for acknowledging that I am not a baseless complainer. Aside from being able to multi-track. I cannot imagine how powerful the A4 would be if I could route the different voice through different gear, filters, distortions, and so on. It could be four different synths. I was fine with it as it is because it is still great kit.

#34

Damn that first page is a joke!! A real free for all where everyone wants to throw the boot in on one unarmed guy with an opinion. Some people here should learn how to back the fuck off when a points been made!! thoroughly already!! Iā€™m sure the rest of you repeating the same thing over and over did nothing to change anyoneā€™s mind. Seriously Close to bullying.

Kinda Puts me off posting anything.

#35

One things for sure as I see it tension has been running real high since this ā€œlaunch partyā€ and I realy think it would be a much needed splash of cool water if elektron released the update on Friday rather than dragging it out like this.