^ so that’s where I must have read it too! Thanks, couldn’t rem where twas stated…
finally someone that gets what my problem with the BDs is - THX Daren!! I almost felt like im alone with addicted people that forgive Elektron everything ^^
It is a matter of fact that the BD’s synthesis engine is just not … right for the purpose of creating rock solid Bassdrums. And i repeat this again if you want: The BT is capable of creating those Bassdrums, but hell - IT IS A BASETOM !!! Why should i use a basetom for creating a bassdrum when i would most likely use it for … a basetom?!
I am seriously not as competent as Daren is; seems he’s getting really deep into the synthesis methods and techniques and knows his stuff very well, but: You dont need to know all the theory behind to just KNOW that the BD machines are just not right as they are right now. They are too specific in what they can create and the fact that both machine types nearly sound the same - create similar timbres at least - tells me that either the synthesis method is not implemented correctly at all or that Elektron really has to release new machines to give a wider spectrum of possibilities. But because i cannot imagine that Elektron did completely wrong here i assume that it really only is a new machine type - much like Daren already pointed out - that should slowly arrive for it.
C’mon Elektron, there is sooo much potential in the Rytm. Please, free us from using the BT to create nice and solid Bassdrums and make the BD’s able to create them. In my opinion they should be able to.
Cheers 
@BTS_WRKNG: Thx for the hint mate. Looks like Elektron knew in advance that their BD has a problem with the Machines as they are right now. So that they already needed to point people to the BT ^^ Oh jeeez 
Just semantics innit.
If they had labeled the bass tom BD2 instead would you have been happy?
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Funny, the folks creating the rather sick sample packs don’t fret about a bass drum versus a bass tom - they just make some wicked packs and use the bass tom as a bass drum with no asterisk in the PDF clarifying the distinction.
Really? That’s where this discussion has gone. Curious
Not only that, but drum machines don’t usually have a “Bass Tom”, only a LT, MT, HT…so yeah BT = BD2 = boomier BD on the AR (who cares what it’s called?)
My first impressions were glowing but somehow I’ve had a falling out with the Rytm. It seems insane to me because this box is frickin amazing and I honestly have no right to be so picky. After years of fiddling around with samplers that rely on SCSI storage and crappy naming conventions for samples, all of those problems have been solved for me with the Rytm. The ease with which you can set parameters per step is nothing short of a revelation. And having analog filters and overdrive per sample makes for one hell of a sound. Not to mention the scene and performance functionality.
Sidestepping this technical BD discussion for a moment (not saying it’s not interesting, because it very much is, to me)…
My frustration lies mainly with the “kit” system. It is, perhaps, not even the Rytm’s fault, I don’t know. Coming from a background where I’m used to the MC-909 and RS-7000, I expect to be able to create a kit combining onboard sounds and samples and load it up in any pattern, any time I want. I also prefer, as on those machines, that a new pattern starts with some sort of default kit loaded where you make changes to it and just save it if you like it. On the Rytm, it disturbs me to no end that every new pattern starts with the kit from the pattern I was just working on. This, in itself, is not bad thing (actually kind of handy). The problem is that if I change anything on that new pattern without saving first, the previous pattern is altered as well!
I suppose Overbridge would fix some of these issues but, unfortunately, I have no interest in using Overbridge. And I’m waiting like patience on a monument for some new machines to come out but who knows when that will happen. So, for now, I just decided to sell the Rytm and look to my Spectralis to make my samples sound good.
Come on though Daren, after what you achieved with the A4, this is no biggie. Even if they created a resonant filter kick machine on the OS…it would still use the 1 filter for that voice anyway, so would it really make a difference in comparison to a bespoke machine? Apart from the fact it would be easier to tweak (more immediate) because Elektron already chose the available values/limits.[/quote]
Thanks, what I meant was in the synth page the resonant filter drum there, so you still have the regular filter which can still be used to sculpt the sound.
But yeah no biggie, just a strange omission I think.
Just in case it is not obvious, I am far from unhappy with the Rytm as it stands right now, the sample engine + the filters are killer.
I agree with a poster above - the KIT system sucks. I shouldn’t have to load a project to load a specific kit ;/
Hah, nailed it.
perfectly reasonable question, and it’s something i pondered years ago w/r/t another instrument of theirs. the synth machines on the machinedrum have names that indicate a particular sound, but in practice are equally or far more useful making completely different ones. since then i’ve simply thought of these names as starting points asking to be tweaked into unrecognizability.
“forgive”? What sin have they committed?
It is a matter of fact that the BD’s synthesis engine is just not … right for the purpose of creating rock solid Bassdrums.
Actually, that’s precisely what it’s not. It’s a matter of opinion. What you’ve stated is entirely subjective. No one can quantify “rock solid Bassdrums” but you. So what you mean is that the BD machines currently available don’t perform as YOU would like them to.
And i repeat this again if you want: The BT is capable of creating those Bassdrums, but hell - IT IS A BASETOM !!! Why should i use a basetom for creating a bassdrum when i would most likely use it for … a basetom?!
Because, just like the other analog machines in the Rytm, the BT is not a specific drum; it is a synthesis engine, or rather a section of the Rytm’s synthesis architecture pointing to a synthesis engine. It just so happens to be labelled in such a way as to make drum kit part assignments easier. Would you have preferred that Elektron simply name all of the pads/tracks Track 1 through 12?
You dont need to know all the theory behind to just KNOW that the BD machines are just not right as they are right now.
“And i repeat this again if you want:” Maybe they just aren’t right for you?
They are too specific in what they can create and the fact that both machine types nearly sound the same - create similar timbres at least - tells me that either the synthesis method is not implemented correctly at all or that Elektron really has to release new machines to give a wider spectrum of possibilities
I won’t argue with that second half, that’s for sure. I would love to see additional machine types and broader limits for the existing functions. I personally feel (did you catch that?) like Elektron have some sort of “walls” in place to lock the Rytm into a certain sonic space. BUT – and here’s the kicker – it doesn’t mean that anything has been improperly implemented. The machine performs as advertised and then some, again as evidenced by many people happily creating all sorts of great music with the Rytm. From everything I’ve heard online and in my own studio, the Rytm doesn’t lack in any category per se; it just simply can’t be expected to satisfy everyone’s tastes to the fullest. It’s not possible!
I don’t think it’s fair to state that there is something inherently wrong with the machine, just because it doesn’t create a particular sound that any person wishes it to. Your not being able to create a drum sound that plays back at a certain frequency, at a particular volume, or encompassing some “fade time” (or whatever it was) just because some other machines can do it, doesn’t constitute a design flaw or error on Elektron’s behalf. If you weren’t part of the R&D for the Rytm, you can’t rightly say that something is missing that should have been there all along. It was never up to you. Those who designed it were satisfied with what they created, enough to release it, and basically said, “Here it is, here’s what it sounds like. We’re proud of what we’ve created. It won’t be for everyone, it won’t do everything, but it’ll allow thousands of artists to create some wonderful music, just as it is. Right now.”
Looks like Elektron knew in advance that their BD has a problem with the Machines as they are right now.
Look, I want you to have the bass drum sound that you so passionately desire; I sincerely do. I hope Elektron updates the machines to be able to perform as you’d like, honestly. I also want the Rytm to expand in many different avenues allowing us a much richer palette from which to create our own personal masterpieces. But let’s try for just a moment to separate our opinions from fact.
i dont have an AR, altho Ive considered getting one - atm im good… but im interested in all this discussion
however i wanted to point out the psychological flaws with this argument here, like others have tried…
where people confuse their own subjective opinions as being objective facts…
for example, some people would say this is a rock solid bassdrum
other people would say its not, but instead this is a rock solid bassdrum
other people would say its not, but instead this is a rock solid bassdrum
other people would say its not, but instead this is a rock solid bassdrum
…
anyways you get the idea… (hopefully)
Does this mean I need to go out and buy one Daren? I’m so confused…the voices in my head are shouting something at me, I can’t understand what they are saying.
The whole sample / sound / kit management on RYTM is bad. It’s such an essential element to get right. I think it’s one of Elektron’s short comings in general, or intentional design decisions.
The whole sample / sound / kit management on RYTM is bad. It’s such an essential element to get right. I think it’s one of Elektron’s short comings in general, or intentional design decisions.[/quote]
It seems like it would be an easy enough fix. I mean, they already have it so that if you load a saved sound to a pad, it automatically imports the necessary sample. If only they could tweak the code so that you could dial in a kit and it would load all the necessary samples.
But definitely, even if you want to load a kit using only analog sounds, you shouldn’t have to go into another project to snag it.
If they ever fix that whole situation, I’ll be back for another Rytm for sure.
The whole sample / sound / kit management on RYTM is bad. It’s such an essential element to get right. I think it’s one of Elektron’s short comings in general, or intentional design decisions.[/quote]
currently dealing with
archaic Tempest file structures
convoluted OT file handling.
inane, mundane and insane.
seems they can get the sound engines all modern and good
but cant write easy functional code to deal with file handling
guess its the crap job no one wants
though i dont have problem with the pattern and kit set up on the MnM
perfectly said.
Wished I was smarter/faster or more intuitive with my OT and MnM. The MD and A4 seem to have faster workflows.
Tried to use the BT for a kick today. Got some cool stuff but nothing that could compete with what I had on the BD track. Tried getting creative with the filter and the LFO to no avail.
I could hear the beginnings of what I was after but just couldn’t get to it.
Yup. These are the main strengths of the Rytm for me. After years of working with samplers where you really have to massage the samples to get them to sound just the way you want, the Rytm really fattens samples up quickly without any external processing. Combine that sound with an excellent sequencer and tactile pad interface, scenes, and performances, and it’s like the ultimate drum sampler player.
As for the analog engines, I’ve gotten some good results: they are ultra controllable with a wide parameter range, so sometimes it takes some time to get that exact sound you are looking for.