Thank you.Most appreciated.
Thank you all for your positive feedback. I have updated the NOTES (click here for the latest version), by revising small things and adding trig conditions and the creation of fills with the OSses of the AR and A4. Happy music making! Olaf
Hi Olaf,
this is awesome effort as there is not much litarature out there for the elektrons. This will give you really good Karma 
You describe that you are also doing live sets with the elektrons, are there any youtube videos out there or have you load up something @ Soundcloud? I would really like to have a look at your performance.
The A&H Qu Pack is a really good tipp. I have quite a similar setup to yours (live, dark triniy, push, a moog, dsi and some moogerfoogers) but for the moment I still use a small analog mixer and some behringer Patch bays. It might be a good idea to switch to a digital console. Do you use the A&H also as your main soundcard? how is the roundtip latency as I read it uses standard usb mode?
And one last thing: As you describe the Sample chains you mention, that the tuning doesnt matter as you dont write it in the 10 Charakter name subscription. Im still learning to get along with the OT and have so far worked more with live. But isnt it important that the Kick, Snare, Hihat have all the right tunings in the Scale (eg set the Kick on the tonica, the snare on the third and the Hihat on the seventh)? Wouldnt it be important to tune the samples exactly to the right tone and mark this in the naming of the sample-files (eg, KDamin for a Kick in A Minor)? Or how do you tune your kick samples in OT and AR?
Greetings,
Goat
I dont know, maybe its obvious, but i had a little struggle with this:
I wanted to volume blend in a sample, when i start a new scene in the arranger.
The trick is now:
- set an LFO with its sync to -> track one half cycle.
- set the AMP Page to -64
- set the wave form to RAMP
- in AMP setup, set it to analog, so the AMP picks up the start value, and does not start with zero.
- lock the LFO depth and rate to a scene, the rate will determine how fast the RAMP cycle is reached. As only the first part of the LFO waveform is passed, it will set an ofset to AMPĀ“s value of your track only once, and the loop runs then at that volume. (This is handy when you instantly switch scenes manualy aswell, but dont want a volume hit when doing so.)
Dear Goat
the live rig I describe is the one one I have been developing over several months and I am still at it - I canāt even tell how it works in practice! I described my intentions, and I hope I did not give false impressions. The jury on this setup is therefore still out.
So far the QUPac does everything, including recording, soundcard etc and there are of course also build in effects. Not everything however will work well in a live performance (eg if you have to dive into menus). An issue I have still to solve is to tilt the display. I need some cradle to look down onto the display, when not sitting at a desk.
For many people the QUPac will be an overkill and smaller mixer will be just fine. I describe in the notes how I got to it via the channel count. My current strategy is to go through a set by moving from pattern to pattern. Each pattern will be linked to a particular musical key. The selected slices in sample chains on the OT are ordered accordingly. I have thus slices of different keys in one sample chain, which is why I donāt put the key into the file name. One can then p-lock the right slice for the pattern in question, or you need to have a note or some other system to know whether the slice fits. I check the key and order slices in my DAW (Ableton). The QUPac has even a spectral analysis on board to check main frequencies but this is quite rough. To check the frequencies or key of tracks on the AR, I have used Overbridge and the tuner that is available in newer versions of Ableton Live.
(@Sternenlicht: So far I deliberately do not use arrangements and scenes. My goal is not to replicate music production with a DAW. I want a pool of options to jam. The key order element are patterns, the rest is designed for pick & mix )
Best, Olaf
Dear Olaf,
yes, I think we will never stop to learn new things so itāll be always āIām still learning, the get along with xyzā, thats part of the fun and part of the process
Thanks to your tipp I bought the imidiconnect and now I can control my OT with my old faderfox UC3, which works great. Ive combined the dark trinity with two other synths and all route them trough the OT which goes into my mixer. At the moment it looks like this:
Audio:
Sub 37 --> AR --> OT (IN AB)
DSI Pro 2 --> AF --> OT (IN CD)
Unfortunately the OT has only 4 Inputs, but I have 4 Synth, 3 of them in Stereo. And my Mixer has only 2 Inserts (Mono-send, stereo-return). but at least basslines and drones of the Sub37 and the Kick of the AR can melt together with the Compressor of the AR.
MIDI:
all stuff connected to the MIDI4+
Sub 37 sends also MIDI to the AF Channel 1 if needed, DSI Pro 2 sends MIDI to the AF Channel 2 if needed. OT sends out MIDI to Sub 37 and DSI Pro 2 (which I route through AF Chan. 4) and syncs the AR and AF. Faderfox UC3 controls the Levels and Amp Vol of all 8 channels of the OT. Ill play around with this setting in the following weeksā¦, If you want, I can set up a drawing for your script if you like.
Could you look up the roundtrip latency of the A&H Qu-Pac for me on your system, that would be interesting!
Cheers,
Goat
I had a look on the competitors of the Qu 16, XR18 from Behringer, Mackie DL1608 and Soundcraft Ui16.
All the competition is cheaper, but lacks a lot of very cool features on the Qu 16.
Main thing is: display on the rack mixer, this allows control over the mixer with the onboard controls. Also its possible to do multitrack recording on the Qu 16 on a USB hard drive. (48 Khz sample rate.)
The competion allows only the stereo sum on the mixer. (Soundcraft -> usb drive.) Also the XR18 does only stereo recording. But its possible to use it as multitrack recorder via USB and computer.
I wouldnt worry about the latency - i would record multitrack directly to the mixer. I think latency would be an issue, if you would add stereo returns from the DAW to use vst plugins. You would need a very low latency from your audio interface.
I think for what is in the Qu , its a fair price tag, and more than worth it, because you may not need other equipment running with it.
The behringer has the X touch console , which you can add to the rack mixer, via ethernet - if you add that to the price of the mixer, you are close to the Qu 16 rack.
(now i want a Qu 16.)
Moin! I am currently out of the country, unable to try things. I have yet to fully integrate with the DAW. Right now I use the DAW only to prepare and analyze winds, samples etc and I use Push to play soft synth (freely). The discovery of Overbridge is on the to do list. For this reason I havenāt had any worries about latency and to be honest, I donāt know yet how to determine the round latency.
When you consider purchasing a A&H Qu, check the dimensions (the Qu 16 takes a lot of space ā¦ but, of course, gives lots of faders Secondly, note that the QuPac has the heart of the Qu 32 (!), which gives it also more groups, which Iāve found already useful.
Unfortunately, it does not appear to be possible to prevent the Qu mixer from sending MIDI signals. I donāt want to control my DAW from the mixer and it currently pollutes the MIDI airspace with signals.
I use the Qu Pac now as my main soundcard and I have purchased a SSD hard disc for recording via the QUPac. Again, I have yet to collect more experience with this. Recording into the DAW is of course also interesting but with two soft synths running, and nothing else, the CPU load of the late 2013 MacBook Pro top model kicks in the ventilator, so that I have not yet tried running more through the DAW (apart from my interest to have the DAW only as a secondary extra bit, which I could also do without).
The list of options and the flexibility of the Qu mixers is enormous and figuring them out appeals to us Elektronauts ā¦ great fun pondering over the huge schematic diagram
I have also tried to use the insert ducker, using the AR kick signal but somehow I could not duck the signal. I would be interested to hear from others whether they could get a pumping effect with the insert ducker.
Highest priority following my return from South Africa to Germany is to build a stand for the Qu Pac, to turn it upright.
Best wishes, Olaf
I would recommend the Qu Pac aswell, got messed up with the Qu 16 which is indeed the modell with the faders.
I am not sure how important the faders would be for live playing. I saw live acts like āMiniloge /Son Kiteā they do a lot with their mixer. (Blending in Sounds for example.) But that could be probably not so important for the electron boxes. How do you feel about the missing surface ?
(Found you soundcloud, its pretty nice what you do.)
Ah, these are good tipps Marcus and Olaf, thank you I have an 19" Rack with some slots to spare, so the QuPac might be a good thing to upgrade. I measured the latency of the Overbridge and its about 45 ms via USB. It only works with the latency compensation, then its real tight. If I include it via midi and an uad-interface, I get around 9 ms, which is not really good, but ok, so for live playing it would be to turnthe knobs directly on the elektrons.
For the MIDI-Polution of the Qu pac: Isnāt it possible to use the Qu Pac via the iMIDI-4+ which could filter all the MIDI-Signals from the QuPac?
At the moment Im preparing a table for finetuning the rytm with lfos, so it plays exactly in tune of a scale. I will post it, when its ready, probably with a few tuned kits.
Greetings,
Goat
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The main advantage of faders is when you can move two easily in parallel. Obviously , this cannot be done with the QuPac. The iPad App is a solution and looks very usable but somehow, and despite of several attempts of wanting to use the iPad with different roles, I like the boxes with knobs and buttons and faders more for the haptic. Otherwise, the select buttons is all one has to press and then turn the knob, instead of faders. For Elektronauts the QuPac will be easy to use, even in live settings. I still prefer to do tack level changes and mutes on the machines, not on the mixer. I always want the machines to be the main focus. In my. toes I describe different workflows for using external and internal effects units. This seems to work quite well (but then, I am not a pro and fegular live performer yet).
I use the iConnect MIDI4+ as the MIDI hub but the laptop goes into the mixer (playing soft synths) and the MIDI goes over that USB as well. I am away now from the gear and have to look into this again. It would be great to share our experience with the A&H Qu s.
Best, Olaf
Hi Olaf,
if you want to control the faders of the QuPac with haptic faders, Iā recommend connecting a faderfox UC4 to it, there you have at least 8 faders and 8 encoders on a very small footprint and you can configure the thing to any channel and cc.
Iāve postet a tutorial on how to finetune the Rytm here:
If you want, you can copy and paste it to your How to Guide.
Cheers,
Goat
I did a further research, the Qu 16 compares to the X32 rack from behringer, the X18 line is not on the same level.
The x32 rack is quiete a bit cheaper still. 1300ā¬ vs 1700 from A&H. It also has a display, but it does only allow stereo recording of one bus via usb.
I think nothing beats the Qu Pac. From the x32 there is a core version available without the display and only remote controllable for around 800ā¬.
Behringer support seems to suck though.
so what about a soundcraft UI16 or an Presonus RM16AI? Ok those dont have a front screen, but as I understand olaf, its a bit uncomfortable to use the front display of the QuPac anyway. So why dont scrap it and have the Mixer on a pc? By the way: can the Qu Pac also be controlled via a Mac or PC, or is it just iPad?
Greetings,
Goat
The display of the QuPac is excellent and I consider it very usable! The two workflows, which aim describe in the notes, do actually work quite well. I do not see a need for faders or another control box, for me! I am very happy as it is and I will continue to refine the setup and workflow ā¦ and update the notes accordingly. The Qu mixers offer an enormous amount of functionality. I mentioned the ducker already and also the choice of onboard effects is great. If one pre-selects two effects, dialing in the effects, on the fly, works well. With scenes, one can easily re-set everything or choose from up to 100 pre-defined configurations on the press of a button. The deign of the interface with one knob is very clever. The control via the iPad works very well but I do not have a need for it. For most cases, I control levels of individual tracks on the machines (for the OT with a faderbox) and thus the choice for the very compact QuPac (which has even the engine of the Qu 32!).
The QuPac has got my interestā¦I recently got back ITB with an Audiofire12 (same interface I had a couple of years ago) and Iām thinking that if I could just transfer my multitrack recordings from the QuPac to my DAW (Live) that I could do final lilā edits etc before doing a mixdown.
Do you use your DAW to further edit or arrange you tracks by transferring your multitrack recordings to your DAW?
Or do you simply record via the QuPac and call it a day?
Knock Knock, anyone with a qu-pac wanna chime in?
I am mostly interested in this feature:
Multitrack Record ā You can record to a USB
storage device plugged into Qu-Drive:
ļ· 18 Tracks = Individually patchable sources
ļ· Record format = 48kHz, 24-bit, WAV file
ļ· Data rate = 144 KB/sec per track (max 4GB total)
ļ· Qu allocates a folder name āQU-MTnnnā for each
recording where ānnnā increments from 001 to 999
starting at the highest number +1 it finds on the
device. The tracks are named āTRKnnā within the
folder where ānnā is 01 to 18.
Would this mean as the file size limit is 4 gbyte :
18 Individual files with the size of 4 gbyte maximum ?
Or would the multitrack recoding be 4 gbyte? That would only allow for short sessions.
What sucks is, that the mixer is only controllable via ipad.
Also remixing your recording is not possible, you would need to stream it back from the DAW.
What kills the thing for me is the limited android support. Even if its configurable via the display. Not so comfortable, as sitting back and mixing from the pad. Also Windows seems not to be fully supported.
Behringers X32 rack runs for 1300, supports android, but does only record stereo to usb. But all channels via usb streaming to the DAW.
I hoped for an individual solution. But leaving out android users sucks.
I think it means that each track has a limit of 4 gb each.
The mixer can also be controlled via its touch display and android, though I think the android app just lets you control certain monitors (http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/qu-you/).
Iāve spent the last couple of days coming up with different bindings for the select keys and soft keys, excited to implement it all once it arrives.
Really curious what darenager thinks of it now since he posted this, Finally, the perfect mixer? [Allen & Heath QuPac]
There is an 3rd party app for Android ā¦
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.davidgiga1993.mixingstation.ah_qupro
Ok, i think i order the Qu Pac. I would have hated it to buy an Apple Pad just for this purpose, as I had a Android pad lying around.
Sorry for derailing this thread about Olafs inputs /tips with this mixer talk.