I actually owned 2 digitakts. Bought one new when it dropped, returned it because of the crashes. Bought one again used, and sold it again because it still had software issues and that lack of file transfer from the digitakt to the computer really bothered me.
Seems weird to sell it just because you don’t have 1/4” inputs on your mixer. Maybe get a new mixer? Or was your Behringer a big investment?
I want to be more sympathetic, but based on that other thread it sounds like you just can’t get past the fact that the individual outs are stereo.
do you know of any gear that would better fit your needs ? If so, sell your A4 and go for it. No need to force yourself into playing with an instrument that is not the right one for you.
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You misunderstand. Even if I set it up in stereo I still get phase cancellation. Plus as per pan law the amplitude is dropped on both channels. It’s not the mixer as the phase cancellation happens before it hits the mixer otherwise i could flip the phase on the mixer and it would resolve the issue. I tried both a continuous insert cable going into my aux ins, and a y cable with female ts on each side so i could plug my xlr to trs cable into each side. Both had the same result.
Edit: in that thread I posted detailed measured results from testing using all methods suggested except a mono sum cable, since it’s not a thing i can buy in trs to xlr form. In the end I gave up and hoped for overbridge to be the solution to the problem. But now, not even that.
I believe your phase cancellation issue is really just a misunderstanding of the concept of balanced mono jacks and how it relates to unbalanced stereo jacks. You can pick any product off the shelf with a stereo TRS jack and you will experience the same phase cancellation if you plug it into a mono balanced jack.
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Does this theory explain why I’m getting phase cancellation from a stereo splitter or insert cable? We’ve already established in the other thread that this was the reason for happening with a direct connection.
Are you saying the phase is inverted between left and right in the individual outputs? If that’s true, you wouldn’t be the only one to notice it. Otoh, if you’re the only one having this issue (which seems to be the case?) then it’s a problem with your setup.
I’m saying it’s not inverted, and that’s why I’m getting cancellation at the cable stage when splitting. At 0 pan the output is identical BEFORE the cable splits, and phase cancels. As it pans to left or right, the signal comes back on both sides. Do you have an Analog Four MKII or AK? Have you tried for yourself? I would think that’s a more constructive way of replying.
Sounds like you have a misunderstanding of how stereo outputs work and you’re unwilling to accept that even though a lot of people have tried to explain it to you. That’s OK. Mono individual outs are common so buy something with that. But based on your explanation, it doesn’t sound like there’s an actual issue with the A4 MKII outputs.
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Based on my explaination. Do I need to photograph my process and send you audio clips for you to understand? I know full well how stereo ouputs work, and didn’t have this problem with any of the Roland Boutique devices, as an example. I ask again, have you tried for yourself? Unless you have, and have some insight, your comments are not useful.
Sell it and get something that works for you. Simple than that. We all had to suffer through gear that didn´t do what has been promised …(Does someone remember the Terratec EWS 64 XL Sampler?..big sigh…)
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You are misunderstanding how balanced outputs work.
Your individual outputs are NOT stereo - period. Whoever told you this was wrong, if you believe this, you are wrong.
They are BALANCED. The way balanced signals work, there are two channels, LIKE a stereo output. However, one of the channels is phase inverted. If you use this output properly, you will have no issues. If you use it improperly, you will phase cancel the signal.
You either need to use a simple 1/4" mono cable into an UNBALANCED INPUT, or you need to use a balanced audio cable. If your mixer has only XLR in and your outputs are 1/4", I’d be very curious to see a pic of the exact cable /adapters you are using.
This misunderstanding happens a lot, but it sounds like its working as designed.
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I bought my first synth in 2001. 17 years later, and dealing with the qc of a number of companies, I’m finding a disappointing trend where synthesizers are following the lead of consumer hardware and software companies and releasing product before it’s finished and over promising and under delivering. Unlike consumer product, however, there is very little accountability in the synth world. People can make promises, and break them repeatedly without consequence and people still buy their product anyhow. Maybe I’ll go back to just doing all modular and get an ES-8 to get a direct audio connection of multiple tracks from my modular into my computer.
Even if they released a driver that allowed the devices to be used as an audio interface and gave access to the individual tracks that way it would make a lot of people happy and solve my issue. And then they could concentrate on the librarian/vst aspect of the software to perfect it.
I make this mistake all the time. Man, I never have a clue what I’m doing when I’m wiring shit around. Even rang down poor old Carson at Dave Smith Instruments with an exact case like this with the Tempest, until the man kindly explained to me that I’d confused left with right and center with back.
You’d think that I learned. Just watch me with a Digitakt and a Prophet 6 today. I haven’t.
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You mean Elektron support telling me it was stereo outs was wrong too? If it was a balanced output with one side phase inverted then I would be able to just use my TRS to XLR cable and have no issue with phasing at all. This is not the case. Additionally, if one of the sides was phase inverted I wouldn’t have phasing issues using the two types of stereo splitters I have.
This whole discussion occured because as you suggest, I used a balanced audio from TRS to XLR and the signal was phase cancelled in the center.
Honestly I wish it was a balanced output, I wouldn’t have any issues. For your reference here are images of the cables I tried in addition to my TRS to XLR cable.
Edit: The insert cable I ran through my aux input and routed the signal to two channels on my console.
I don’t know who told you what, but the specs of the machine say balanced. Everything you describe sounds like misusing balanced signals. Those cables you are using would cause this cancellation issue, for sure.
So again, I don’t know exactly what the problem is or how you have it setup, but literally everything points to misuse and misunderstanding of balanced vs unbalanced signals. Those cables you showed will definitely cause this issue…one solution is to just use 1 of the sides, you do not need two, as they are the same signal, just phase inverted.
The pics do help for sure because I can guarantee that will cause this issue. What you haven’t shown is how you convert from 1/4" to xlr, and that could also be an issue. Not to mention, are you sure your mixer is working properly?
Edit: just some background, a balanced 1/4" cable could also be used as a stereo 1/4" cable, so people sometimes throw the words around interchangeably, or maybe use the wrong word when they mean the other thing. This is what helps make it such a confusing concept.
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I don’t know who told you what, but the specs of the machine say balanced. Everything you describe sounds like misusing balanced signals. Those cables you are using would cause this cancellation issue, for sure.
Elektron techincal support told me that both on here and in official support tickets.
So again, I don’t know exactly what the problem is or how you have it setup, but literally everything points to misuse and misunderstanding of balanced vs unbalanced signals. Those cables you showed will definitely cause this issue…one solution is to just use 1 of the sides, you do not need two, as they are the same signal, just phase inverted.
The issue with just using one side is that I need to pan hard left or hard right to actually hear the signal. Anything in the center is phase cancelled. Which makes the sound pool, browser and manager useless because all sounds in there are panned center. You’re displaying a lack of knowledge of how audio signal works, because if you did know, you would have understood what I said earlier about how I have the option to phase flip in the mixer, and tried that and it didn’t resolve the issue.
In addition the insert cable was what Elektron support told me to use.
The pics do help for sure because I can guarantee that will cause this issue. What you haven’t shown is how you convert from 1/4" to xlr, and that could also be an issue. Not to mention, are you sure your mixer is working properly?
Please show me where in the documentation for the A4MKII that they are balanced outputs and not stereo outputs because nothing in the manual or on the Elektron site states this. Yes I’m sure my mixer is functioning correctly because currently I have the main outputs, my modular system, and a korg polysix plugged into it without issue.
sometimes throw the words around interchangeably, or maybe use the wrong word when they mean the other thing. This is what helps make it such a confusing concept.
Considering I’m a sound engineer as a profession and have formal training, and you had to do research to realize that a TRS cable and stereo cable are the same thing…
Why is it that people always get crucified on this board when raise legitimate complaints about a product that’s not working for them. Continued broken promises on promised and sold functionality is a valid complaint.
Balanced audio outputs
Headphones out level: +19 dBu (55 Ω) Main outputs level: +19 dBu Output impedance: 440 Ω unbalanced
??? I didn’t do any research - what are you talking about? I’m saying I’ve seen people use the word incorrectly. I’m saying maybe its possible that someone used that word wrong to you and you are hung up on it. Formal training? Do you have any idea who I am or what I’ve done?
Nobody’s crucifying you - we’re trying to give you other options and explain something which it sounds like you’ve clearly misunderstood. Everything you say or do sounds like someone misusing a balanced output, which the website clearly says it is. You insist it is something it is not, and are complaining about this not working the way you misunderstand it should work. Nobody can help you if you insist that a false statement is true.
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Please read what you linked again. That is for the headphone out and main out. Does not say anything about the direct outs.
Also, are you saying that Elektron Support lied to me saying they were not balanced outputs but stereo unbalanced outputs?
Edit, from the manual:
- TRACK 1–4 STEREO OUTPUTS, Use standard 1/4” stereo (Tip/Ring/Sleeve) phone plug or 1/4” mono
phone plug. 11. MAIN OUT L/R, Use either 1/4” mono phone plug (unbalanced connection) or 1/4” stereo (Tip/Ring/
Sleeve) phone plug (balanced connection). 12. HEADPHONES. Audio output for stereo headphones. Use 1/4” (Tip/Ring/Sleeve) phone plug.