Instead of hyperbole that could come straight off a marketing ad it might be more enlightening/constructive to highlight the things that this sentence actually refers to and highlight the real world differences between using Push2 and DT (for someone with ableton/push already in their setup/workflow)? As a Push owner Iām genuinely interested. Im curious if I can make Push basically as nice to use as DT with same functionality or if there are some walls Iād hit if I tried. Iāve barely used Ableton in a long time and almost zero time on Push but itās something Iāve always planning on getting more in to at some point. Just wondering where these differences are that you speak of lay and how significant they are?
Iāve owned push 2 and yea it integrates very well with ableton but I was always just faster with a keyboard n mouse so sadly I failed to see the real world advantage of it.
push is still tethered to a laptop and for me Iām never gonna use a laptop on stage again, they seem to love crashing at the worst possible moment.
push is different to dt in many ways, n not a comparison I care about much.
youāre really just comparing ableton to dt now.
I think it can be compared to NI Form
especially if you combine it with a good sequencer, like Abletonā¦ or max
Yeah I can totally understand thereās no comparison for anyone or situation where they donāt wanna use a laptop I wouldnāt want to use laptop on stage either. But that side of things was never mentioned so it seemed like a more valid comparison.
As a very basic ableton user and someone with almost zero time on Push I just wondered how close they could really be made to be and the benefits from each side. Maybe Iāll try to set up a DTesque template here if I get some time and see how it feels. Doesnāt seem like anyone else is really interested but Iād be curious just for my own sake now after bringing it upā¦
This was kind of my point If you have everything from equivalent 3rd party plugs mapped to Push and cover ONLY the same params as DTā¦ I donāt see there being much difference in workflow/audio quality etc and it would be far cheaper to buy a couple of plugins/synths (for someone already using Push2/Ableton as a central part of their setup etc and not needing standalone).
I just thought tho, using Push2 as a quasi-DT means you maybe couldnāt use it as you normally might, in contrast to using DT separately in TANDEM with Ableton/Push. If that was something someone wanted to do. The relationship would be kind of different with both things being inside one box. So maybe that would be the biggest difference? Could be good or bad thing I guess, depending on user workflow etcā¦
Well yeah if you read back the discussion was born from someone saying Ableton made MPC live unnecessary for them, so seemed natural to question if the same statement could be made re Ableton vs DT
Had some how missed Form! Im still on K9 but making the move to K11 as soon as a sale lands. Form could well be what Iām looking for ITB.
I think it all depends on the individual. I can see both sides and probably sit more on your side of things to be honest. But, this argument can go on forever - why bother owning hardware synths and things when ITB works so well (Kontrol S Series) and sounds so good for example!
From what Iāve seen, DT is, to me, overpriced for what it delivers. Iām sure Iām missing something but with MPC Live (and 2nd hand OT) being cĀ£150 more, it just seems like money better spent. But I guess the benefits in all instrumnets are in the eye of the beholder.
There is a difference between ācan do somethingā and ālends itself to doing somethingā
Ableton CAN accomplish everything that MPClive or DT could ever hope to do. Can it do those things as easily or elegantly? I spent some time setting up an Ableton template that accomplished everything I love about the OT. It worked and was immensely more powerful than the OTā¦ but somehowā¦ mehā¦
We are spoiled for choice in all the ways to skin a cat these days. Now the criteria should be how intuitively does the tool skin cats.
This was going a bit too farā¦
I think if you plan on using Ableton and Push 2 alongside the Digitakt in production then most definitely Digitakt would be unnecessary.
The opposite is true If you are working away from the computer (& push), it suddenly makes sense as a good drum sampler and sequencer for other gear.
The Digitakt is a good drum sampler and sequencer, but canāt compare with the power of Ableton / Push 2, and particularly if you have Max 4 Live also.
If you donāt have it yet, my suggestion would be to add Max 4 Live, and forget Digitakt, as there is nothing that canāt be done with the Ableton / Push2 / Max4live combination.
I have push 2 and while it is good it is a little bit too much of everything tbh. I wish they made a controller in that form but with faders instead of the pads. What I really want is a great mixing environment itb. Iāve basically come to the conclusion that thatās where i am at now. But thatās just me I guess.
Itāll be interesting to see where Ableton go next with Push. Iād love for an MPE Push 3.
Out of interest, why not go with an APC Mk2? Or even Maschine Jam?
While ther might be nothing that couldnāt be done with push, live and max, the path to getting where you want to be is unacceptably long for some (like me). Many times Iāve thought to myself āok now imma build this dream setup with m4lāā¦ And get stuck faffing around in max, only to give up later. So YMMV.
For me, it boils down to having to choose between A) maisc music/playing or B) systems design, DSP/programmingā¦ And since I seemingly have the time and energy for only one of these, Iāve ended up choosing A for the moment.
After years of being ITB with Logic Pro (going back to Logic 3.8) and then Ableton, I moved to Push before going hardware only (MPC1000 plus jjos plugged into MD and a bunch of synths) last year. This was mainly because Push didnāt satisfy my need for tactile, one-button-one-function workflow. With Push I still found myself looking at the screen to work out what I was tweaking.
For me, software is easier when I have a clear vision in my head of what I want to achieve, but the beauty of hardware is the āhappy accidentsā and flow - I can set something up on one bit of kit then move to another to counterpoint/transition etc. After a couple of hours Iāve been lost in the music and ended up at a destination I couldnāt have predicted when I started. I canāt get that looking at a screen and clicking a mouse. With hardware itās easier to muck around and come up with something completely unexpected. I find this much more satisfying, probably because it forces me to focus on what Iām hearing rather than what Iām seeing on a screen.
No need for any systems design or DSP programming with M4L.
Iāve never had to program anything as the M4L database on their site is rediculous. Whatever you want has already been made.
Just a case of searching for what you want, downloading the M4L device, load it on a Ableton track and go nuts
But anyway we all work different so whatever works, works
Cenk does an amazing job and the way he demos Elektron products is just other level. My point would be that not everyone has that kind of skill and some people will buy the DT thinking that theyāll be able to do the same stuff as Cenk. I think theyāll be disappointed. With something like Maschine or Ableton even if you lack the skills you can still make something interesting. This thought occurred to me when I watched a vid of the DT at superbooth that was being demoed by another guy from Elektron and not Cenk. Kind of didnāt sound as good. The market these days is about getting crap musicians to come up with something that can be listened to. Eurorack is all about that and thatās why itās growing.
Ive looked everywhere for how to plock in ableton. Thought it was using automation ā¦
Any sequencer without the ability to change peramaters per step etc kills me!!
Not sure I follow.
How come you canāt plock with automation in Ableton?
Hit record, turn a knob when sequencer playing, done?
thatās not p-locks thatās standard automation.